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Mass shooting @ Connecticut elementary school. 20 children killed.

Discussion in 'The OT' started by cj9788, Dec 14, 2012.

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  1. damondlt

    damondlt New Member

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    Not , ignored. I agree with these,
    but I don't agree all weapons should be banned, and I don't agree school security is good the way it is.
    And I also don't hold accountable people who own weapons for the murders.
     
  2. spartanstew

    spartanstew Dry as a bone

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    Our constitution must continue to evolve via amendments, as our forefathers could not see into the future.

    As such, I see no reason to not ban automatic weapons or other weapons who's sole purpose is destruction.

    I know many will be up in arms (so to speak) about that and state that it infringes on their liberties, but it will happen at some point. Maybe next year, maybe 100 years from now. I don't know, but I'm confident that it will.

    That doesn't mean all weapons should be banned and it doesn't mean that criminals might not get their hands on them if they really want them - but it will be more difficult to do so and most of these incidents aren't perpetrated by hardened criminals with the know-how to gather illegal weapons from the black market (and no, I don't have the stats to back that up). They're perpetrated by relatives of friends of people that legally own these guns currently.
     
  3. wilbur_the_goose

    wilbur_the_goose Hall Of Fame

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    Would you put armed security guards here too? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amish_school_shooting

    (The Nickel Mines shooting was unusual because it was an adult shooter as opposed to a 15-25 year old)

    That said - let's remind each other of the words of the Amish at that time (2006):

    The Rev. Schenck reports a grandfather of one of the murdered Amish girls said of the killer on the day of the murder: "We must not think evil of this man."

    Jack Meyer, a member of the Brethren community living near the Amish in Lancaster County, explained to CNN: "I do not think there's anybody here that wants to do anything but forgive and not only reach out to those who have suffered a loss in that way but to reach out to the family of the man who committed these acts."

    Dwight Lefever, a Roberts family spokesman, said an Amish neighbor comforted the Roberts family hours after the shooting and extended forgiveness to them.

    Dozens of Amish neighbors attended Charles Roberts' funeral on October 7, 2006. He was buried in an unmarked grave in his wife's family plot behind Georgetown United Methodist Church, a few miles from the one-room West Nickel Mines schoolhouse. One mourner stated that Roberts' wife was touched by the outward gesture of forgiveness by the Amish community.

    The schoolhouse was torn down eleven days after the tragedy and was re-built in a nearby location.
     
  4. damondlt

    damondlt New Member

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    Newfoundland...
    Ever hear of Gun Smuggling?
    This has been practiced for thousands of years.
    How does Cocane get into this country?

    And yes you can buy stolen guns on the street.

    Not 100% sure what you're asking.

    You're saying the guns only become stolen once they are registered first by someone in the US, and then stolen after.
    Not quite!
     
  5. wilbur_the_goose

    wilbur_the_goose Hall Of Fame

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    PS - One question around the 2nd amendment. Where do "arms" end and "materiel" begin?

    (In 1791, it was a musket or a flintlock, true?)
     
  6. damondlt

    damondlt New Member

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    Newfoundland...
    OK, this is completely different for one.

    And I know all about this shooting since I live about 2 hours from it.

    I'm not going to get into an Amish discussion. They have weapons too by the way.
     
  7. RunnerFL

    RunnerFL Well-Known Member

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    Yes, seriously. If you're going to say things are facts you shouldn't have a problem providing evidence.

    Just a few examples:
    - Pawn/Gun shops get robbed
    - Trucks transporting guns get hijacked and guns stolen
    - Houses get robbed
    - Black market sales
    - Gun runners
    - Illegal arms dealers
    - Fast & Furious (no, not the movies)
     
  8. RunnerFL

    RunnerFL Well-Known Member

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    Did you mean semi-automatic? Automatic weapons are already illegal.
     
  9. lugnutathome

    lugnutathome Hall Of Fame

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    It seems emotion runs high and as it should after such events but it seems a bit like the witch hunts of old.

    Fact is it is not the weapons it is the mental state of the populace and in particular those whom for whatever reasons have slipped below normal rational and OK moral reasoning.

    A weapon in and of itself is not a murderer, the parties leveraging it to commit murder is.

    Where we as a society fall down is in our desire to let others handle it, make laws, create task forces. "handle it, handle it". We want quick fixes to complex issues as long as they don't infringe on what we perceive are our rights.

    Our "matinee idols" frequently are action "heroes" that solve problems with violence and comical dialog. We have common over the counter entertainment technology that literally allows people to live in a virtual world of violence and perfect techniques that can skill them for such action in the real world.

    All of us should be responsible for those we interact with and observing them and possible dangerous behavioral trends as should they of us. And yes, there does need to be a better infrastructure for dealing with mental illness.

    But that has to start with all of us paying attention to one another and not just as means to our own ends. We have largely superficial relationships of convenience with all but a very few and really don't care about the other guy unless they somehow exert influence on our own operational modes. For the most part we are a "me" oriented society and little has meaning till it affects "me".

    We can't stop weapons from being made or distributed. We cannot stop people from wanting these weapons for whatever reasons benign or otherwise (though I can imagine in some reverse universe wild game councils trying to legislate us cause to them its not benign).

    You can't stop a virus by fixing the symptoms. Legislating guns solves nothing as they are the symptoms and not the cause.

    My father was a cop in the fifties, I grew up with pistols of all types around the house. I can shoot one with amazing accuracy better than I can a rifle. I choose not to own guns however in preference to close order contact (should such become required) because in my mind taking a life in a fit of fear or anger is too easy with a gun. But that is my choice for me and my family, I cannot profess to speak on the experiences or needs of others.

    As long as weapons exists (legal or otherwise) there will be people that obtain them. Better we work on fixing the human condition than legislating everybody for the madness of a few.

    Don "gimme back my lawn darts them kids are crossin my lawn again;)" Bolton

     
  10. RunnerFL

    RunnerFL Well-Known Member

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    Timothy McVeigh didn't use a gun yet he killed 168 people, 19 of them children. He used common household stuff too. I can still buy fertilizer, racing fuel and rent a box truck. Did you people now crying for a ban on guns also cry for a ban on Uhaul, Sunoco or Scott's?

    Guns aren't the problem, psychos are!
     
  11. Hoosier205

    Hoosier205 New Member

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    Gun, gun owners, and those who use guns to murder are all the problem. The fact that you can look at the firearm crime statistics in this country and say that tells us all we need to know.
     
  12. RunnerFL

    RunnerFL Well-Known Member

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    So tell us, oh great one, how gun owners helped Timothy McVeigh. I can't wait to hear this one.

    I also like how you skipped over other posts giving you examples of how guns are obtained illegally after you asked for examples. Don't like being proven wrong do you?
     
  13. damondlt

    damondlt New Member

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    Newfoundland...
    So you want a total Gun Ban ??

    Here's a question, do you own a gun? How about your family members?
    How about your friends?
     
  14. damondlt

    damondlt New Member

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    No He doesn't!! His defence is calling us all murderers!
     
  15. Hoosier205

    Hoosier205 New Member

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    I said guns that were NOT owned legally first. Let us know how many gun truck hijackings there have been in the last 10 years.
     
  16. Hoosier205

    Hoosier205 New Member

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    Never said that.. Strike three on your reading before commenting issue.
     
  17. runner861

    runner861 Icon

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    Really? And does Tim McVeigh's event get repeated once a month? Please don't insult us with analogies that are meaningless.
     
  18. Hoosier205

    Hoosier205 New Member

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    McVeigh? We are talking about GUN violence. Those who do harm with bombs...that's an entirely different topic.

    You have never in our entire history here been able to prove me wrong once. Not once. Never will.
     
  19. damondlt

    damondlt New Member

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    No, But security has been vastly improved since, but stabbings, and plenty of other none firearm deaths by humans happen all the time.

    His point is Guns are not the only source.
    And a Firearm Ban will just lead nut jobs to find a different way
     
  20. Hoosier205

    Hoosier205 New Member

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    Never called you a murderer. I said you share a common interest.
     
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