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Mass shooting @ Connecticut elementary school. 20 children killed.

Discussion in 'The OT' started by cj9788, Dec 14, 2012.

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  1. BattleScott

    BattleScott Hall Of Fame

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    That is using a very narrow view of "mental health" when discussing such an enormously broad range of behaviors.

    The core of "criminal behavior" is a basic lack of understanding of right vs. wrong and/or the lack of self-control necessary to have it regulate your behavior. By any account, that is a matter of proper mental health.

    Ultimately, whether you believe that to be true or not does not change the fact that the 3 points outlined are the best approach to legitimate "change". It is a simple as the age-old expression, "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure".
     
  2. BattleScott

    BattleScott Hall Of Fame

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    I never said i thought we were capable of actually doing it. Thats a whole other debate...
     
  3. SayWhat?

    SayWhat? Know Nothing

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    Just one article: http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19950502&slug=2118763

    Search "taggants NRA" and you'll find many more.
     
  4. SayWhat?

    SayWhat? Know Nothing

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  5. phrelin

    phrelin Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    Yeah, sadly the best we can do is light candles and have web sites go briefly dark, while we create more red tape to buy a gun.
     
  6. Carl Spock

    Carl Spock Superfly

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    I just watched the NRA's press conference. I think this headline on the Business Insider says it all:

    Stunning NRA Press Conference Blames Shooting On Media, Video Games, Movies And Calls On Congress To Put Cop In Every School

    Asa Hutchinson, a former Congressman and head of the DEA and border security for Homeland Security, will head up a group to train the people needed to guard each school, and to develop plans to protect each school.

    Both Wayne LaPierre and Hutchinson spoke at the conference, as did two protesters. Silently holding up cloth signs, they shouted out anti-NRA slogans as they were lead out.

    Here is the Business Insider article, along with video.

    A more straight forward news story is at Boston.com.

    One line LaPierre said really got to me:

    "How have our nation's priorities gotten so far out of order?"

    Yes, how did we get here, where having armed guards in our schools seems like a good idea? My God.
     
  7. MysteryMan

    MysteryMan Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    Need I remind you of my post #403 and your reply to it in post #404?.
     
  8. jimmie57

    jimmie57 Hall Of Fame

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    I am not a member of the NRA. I do not side with them or against them.

    I do think what he said in the TV piece is true that we have armed guards at Sporting events, banks, government buildings, protecting the president, etc. etc. but nothing to keep anyone from just walking in and doing what has been done multiple times to our kids in our schools.
    I do believe some would think twice if they knew they would be met with an armed guard to resist what they are intending to do.
     
  9. BattleScott

    BattleScott Hall Of Fame

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    I would agree that the headline says it all. It is a perfect example of the truth behind the twisting of facts the media routinely displays. Mr. LaPierre did not blame the shooting on those things, he blamed the shooting on a bad guy with a gun and proposed that had their been a good guy with a gun present that day, that it would have ended differently.

    * He "criticized" gun-free school zones
    * He "criticized" the glorification of killing in our society
    * He "criticized" the federal spending on foreign aid as opposed
    to protecting our children

    So far, his response and proposal is the only one that has made any sense.
     
  10. MysteryMan

    MysteryMan Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    It would be far easier and quicker to implement what the NRA suggested this morning than waiting for Vice President Biden to think up some more gun laws that will have little effect in preventing another tragedy. As I stated before, laws are only effective when people obey them.
     
  11. MysteryMan

    MysteryMan Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    +1
     
  12. Carl Spock

    Carl Spock Superfly

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    Yes, let's have armed guards at schools. We should also arm all mall cops to stop shootings like the one in Oregon.

    And there was the shooting at the Buddhist temple in Wisconsin and have been at Christian churches, too. We need armed guards in every church, temple and mosque. Wait - do we want to allow guns in mosques?

    What about my stereo store? I had some really upset customers at times. My customers were young white men, perfectly fitting the profile of most of the crazy shooters. Some of these kids got really whacked out when their car stereos didn't work. I should have been armed at all times in my stereo store. I guess I was really lucky I didn't get killed selling hi-fi's.

    Wait a minute. There is a simpler answer. Let's just declare martial law. That will solve all the problems. Armed guards on every street corner. That's the answer. More guns.

    I'd feel safe then.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Again, Wayne LaPierre got it right. How did we get to this point? I would answer, how do we walk it back?
     
  13. phrelin

    phrelin Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    There were 98,817 public schools in 13,809 
school districts in the United States during the 2009-2010 school year. There were another 33,950 private schools.

    For comparison with something our nation recently took on to provide "better" security, there are 5,170 airports open to the general public and far fewer that have a lot of air traffic.

    In round numbers, I would estimate a cost of $19.8 billion a year to have a properly run school security system for the entire country. Right now I'm working on my business plan to consult with those school districts.:sure:
     
  14. MysteryMan

    MysteryMan Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    Cutting back on foreign aid would more than cover the cost.
     
  15. Carl Spock

    Carl Spock Superfly

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    phrelin, does that count universities, colleges and technical schools, too? We need a lot of guards in them. Remember Virginia Tech.
     
  16. Rich

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    Sadly, they'd probably shoot the armed guard first.

    Rich
     
  17. BattleScott

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    Just to be clear, his proposal is armed police officers, not civilian security. I know that doesn't guarantee success in any way, but before the inevitable "mall cop" debates start-up, that need to be kept front and center.
     
  18. BattleScott

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    Would that be for creation of entirely new security forces dedicated to schools? or is that just to provide the supplimental funding necessary to expand the local or state law enforement agencies to provide it?
     
  19. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    Ever been in the Bronx? I was talking to 2 guys from Montana who came to NJ to help Optimum recover. They told me that one of the guys they knew parked his van with a portable generator chained to the back of it. He was instantly mobbed and the chains were cut, the generator liberated and as he drove away his van was riddled by bullet holes.

    The guys from Montana were kinda set back when I said that's not an abnormal thing. Probably has nothing to do with color or race, it's just where you are at that moment. Put simply, if I parked a van with a chained up generator on the back in the Bronx (and I'm talking about the vicinity of the Bronx Zoo here) I would not expect the generator to be there. And the van would probably be up on blocks.

    Rich
     
  20. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    And how many incidents?

    Sure we could spend billions of dollars on security theater ... would that money not be better spent on books and teacher's salaries?

    Sure, spend a few billion on "peace of mind". Eventually kids will get used to their schools being an armed camp the same way we have become accustomed to airport security. Or we will teach kids that the way to end a conflict is to threaten someone with a gun.

    Those 130k+ people will need to come from somewhere. We have officers to move from small departments to larger departments for better pay. If the school jobs do not pay the same (or better) than other positions you'll probably end up with minimally trained police officers or fringe officers - first job no experience or should be retired end of the scale. Not all police officers are equal.
     
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