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Merger talk heats up?

Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by harsh, Mar 18, 2013.

  1. damondlt

    damondlt New Member

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    After accounting for churn, DIRECTV U.S. added 405,000 net new owned and operated subscribers in the quarter, bringing the total number of DIRECTV owned and operated subscribers to 10.68 million as of December 31, 2003, representing a growth rate of 13% compared to the 9.49 million subscribers on December 31, 2002. In the fourth quarter,

    http://investor.directv.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=286595

    If you want to add in Latin America, and Directway, then your totals look more realistic. But the Also lost 22,000 Latin American customers that year. And Satellite Internet?
    Total Profit :
    * DIRECTV U.S. revenues increase 24% to $2.26 billion in the fourth
    quarter and 19% to $7.70 billion for the full year.




    Now Dishnetwork.
    Earlier in the month, EchoStar's DISH Network™ satellite television service reported that it added approximately 340,000 net new subscribers during the fourth quarter of 2003. DISH Network had approximately 9.425 million subscribers as of Dec. 31, 2003, an increase of 1.245 million subscribers over Dec. 31, 2002.
    http://dish.client.shareholder.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=243535

    Profit.
    --EchoStar Communications Corporation (Nasdaq:DISH) reported total revenue of $1.51 billion for the quarter ended Dec. 31, 2003, a 14 percent increase compared to $1.32 billion for the corresponding period in 2002.
    For the year ended Dec. 31, 2003, EchoStar reported total revenue of $5.7 billion compared to $4.8 billion for the year ended 2002, an increase of 19 percent. EchoStar's net income for the year ended Dec. 31, 2003, totaled $225 million, compared to a net loss of $852 million for the year ended Dec. 31, 2002. Net income for the year ended Dec. 31, 2003, includes the effects of $97 million in charges associated with bond redemptions which occurred during the year. Net income for the year also includes the $56 million cost reduction related to the change in estimated royalty obligations and a $34 million cost reduction related to a litigation settlement which occurred during the second quarter of 2003. Net loss for the year ended Dec. 31, 2002, includes the $690 million merger termination charges.


    Wow Dish was having a good year, until all the charges and Lawsuits,and merger fees kicked in.

    Still don't want to believe Directv/ Dish Merger back then was a much tighter race then now?
    2003 US.
    Dish 9.425 M
    Directv 10.7 M
    Difference 1.275 M

    2013 US.
    Dish 14.1 M
    Directv 20.8 M
    Difference 6.7 M
     
  2. damondlt

    damondlt New Member

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    Now I know whos been Editing the Wikipedia.:lol:
     
  3. Jhon69

    Jhon69 Hall Of Fame

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    Here's what I believe:

    There is a suit at DirecTV or DISH who wants to get the most money out of the stock they are going to sell.So they leak a story to whoever,the stocks go up,they get the better price.;)
     
  4. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    DirecTV?

    The figures I posted come directly from DirecTV's Annual Reports for the years stated. I don't know why you are finding different numbers in press release blurbs. I can only speak for the sources I use. (See here)

    I understand you want to inflate today's figures ... at least for the company you are a fan of. After a while the level of inflation becomes unreasonable.
     
  5. domingos35

    domingos35 Icon

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    directv probably has more Subs,but i doubt its financially stronger than dish
    i really hope they don't merge
    directv's equipment are garbage
     
  6. damondlt

    damondlt New Member

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    Did you read any of my posts, or click on any of my links? I guess not.

    Cause if you did, you would see I was proving that DISH was a BIG player during the last merger. This time not so much.
    And I also listed all my research from Dish.com and Directv.com.
    I even copy and paste the exact report.

    Clicking on any of my links will prove that, and Also you were the one inflating Directvs subscriber numbers , Not me!

    I was stating it sounds like you were the one editing the Directv Wikipedia. Because those number are blown way up. just like you were posting in this thread about directv.

    But that's fine, my point was the 2002 merger was anybodys game, very similar companys, 2013 merger, well I don't see Charlie running the show.

    I was proving to you guys that Dish and Directv in 2002 we very much equal, which some of you fail to believe.
     
  7. damondlt

    damondlt New Member

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    in 2002 about Equal.

    2013 Directv has a commanding lead.
     
  8. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    You might as well insult DirecTV directly since THEY are the source of the DirecTV numbers I posted.
    Try not to forget that. :)
     
  9. damondlt

    damondlt New Member

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    Directv was my source too! If you bothered to look. They Came Directly from Directv .com, Investor Relations, Press releases. As I stated already several times that you still ignore.



    Here in case you want to read it this time.

    After accounting for churn, DIRECTV U.S. added 405,000 net new owned and operated subscribers in the quarter, bringing the total number of DIRECTV owned and operated subscribers to 10.68 million as of December 31, 2003, representing a growth rate of 13% compared to the 9.49 million subscribers on December 31, 2002. In the fourth quarter,

    But what ever the case, Its played out.:(
     
  10. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I think you're still missing the point that often smaller companies buy and control larger companies. There are lots of examples if you look.

    I don't believe there is going to be a merger here... but IF there were, it is just as likely to be Dish taking over as it would be DirecTV.
     
  11. damondlt

    damondlt New Member

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    Besides 2 Dying companys, I wouldn't mind seeing and example.

    Sears and Kmart, Sears is in control that was an example that was brought up earlier in this thread.

    Sirius /XM again it was the ONLY way for either company to remain. One had more Value, sure but they were both on life support.
    And how do we even know ,Maybe XM wanted to be done. Maybe they didn't want to be in control knowing their business has been sinking year after year.

    I don't think Directv wants to be done, I think Directv wants Dish to be done!
     
  12. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    DIRECTV is not alien to the idea of changing their numbers in updated filings. Some of it comes from non-GAAP accounting.
     
  13. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    While Ka may have more bandwidth (it all depends on how you parition it), less of it is usable so I'm not sure what they're trying to pull.

    We'll see how it all shakes out but if Ku can fit three channels where Ka can only fit two, they were wrong in their assumptions.
     
  14. damondlt

    damondlt New Member

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    just going by what was stated by Directv,

    I think they know a little bit about how a satellite works.:)
     
  15. DodgerKing

    DodgerKing Hall Of Fame

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    Percent is not the best number to use in this case. You want to look at total number of subscribers. Although the percent of subs between Directv and dish has decreased, the total number of subs between them has increased. DirecTV has still added more total subs than Dish.

    Example using simple math.

    Lets say Company A had 50 people and Company B had 75 people. Company B has 50% more and 25 total more

    Lets say in 10 years Company A adds an additional 50 people and Company B adds an additional 55 people. Meaning Company A now has 100 people and they grew by 100% (doubling the number of subs). Company B added 5 more subs than A, bringing their total 130. They grew more in total number, but grew by a smaller percentage, 73%.

    Now the gap between A and B is even greater, 30 instead of 25. But percentage of subs between the two is less than it was 10 years ago. Company B now has 30% more subs instead of 50% more.

    When comparing the number of subs between the two companies from the start to the current. The actual gab between DirecTV and Dish has grown even more. The only reason why the percentage is less is because you have a larger denominator, total subs.

    IOW, even though DirecTV had a head start, they still added more total subs during the time Dish started to now. They are still growing faster than Dish.
     
  16. Diana C

    Diana C Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    That quote has been widely misinterpeted. It refers to the current content on Ku ending, not the elimination of Ku transmissions entirely. The main reason Ka is better for 4K is that the transponder channel width is not fixed by regulations the way it is in Ku based DBS. That said, if the new codecs work for 4K as claimed, you could still fit 2, maybe 3, 4K signals onto a Ku DBS transponder.

    Point is, Ku is not going to be abandoned by DirecTV.

    Regarding the possibility of a merger, the basic competition issues raised last time around remain unchanged, so I doubt a merger would get government approval. Further, the financial health of both companies argues against a merger to maintain the competetive option of satellite to terrestrial delivery systems. The fact that both systems continue to grow, both in subscriber count and net revenue, shows that there is no reason to allow a merger at this time.
     
  17. damondlt

    damondlt New Member

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    When does Directv Launch the Next KU Satellite?
    The Youngest one is 2006 Directv 9s


    And Directv 14 and 15 are both KA
     
  18. Diana C

    Diana C Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    Problem is, the math is not simple. If "company A" has 1,000 customers and earns $1 profit per customer, and "company B" has 500 customers but earns $10 profit per customer, you tell me which is in a better position.

    Even looking at profit is not always accurate...some companies intentionally trim profits to compete on price.

    If want to compare companies from a financial point of view, the most generally accepted method is market capitalization (the sum value of all shares in the company). This is what the fiancial markets say the company is worth. For Dish and DirecTV the numbers are (as of this morning):

    DirecTV: $31.71B
    Dish Network: $16.45B

    So, the market says Dish Network is worth 51% as much as DirecTV is worth. Now, to be fair, you really should add Echostar's market cap to Dish Network's, to make it a more apples to apple comparison:

    Echostar: $3.33B

    Which means Echostar & Dish combined is worth 62% as much as DirecTV is worth.

    Market cap is compared to many other things, such as gross and net revenue, total debt, etc., to determine whether or not a stock is a good investment. Both stocks are currently rated as "buy/hold" by most analysts.
     
  19. Diana C

    Diana C Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    Which means it has an expected useful life through 2021 (15 years).

    Which are going up to expand current service.

    The big "replacement round" in satellite launches will start in about 5 years or so.

    When is Echostar planning a Ku launch? ;)
     
  20. damondlt

    damondlt New Member

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    Exactly!
     

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