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MRV with DECA verses hardwired ethernet?

Discussion in 'DIRECTV Connected Home' started by JRThiele, Apr 7, 2010.

  1. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    So I know you don't have this setup to know much of anything about it, but I'd say BudShark keeps pointing out, what is "eluding" you.
     
  2. LameLefty

    LameLefty I used to be a rocket scientist

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    Your analogy fails when your 6 lane highway hits the off-ramp and there's no way to jump the line for the ambulance stuck in back.
     
  3. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    It's simply amazing how many simply don't see/get this.
    If their "freeway" still has an open lane/wide shoulder, it isn't a problem.
     
  4. BudShark

    BudShark New Member

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    Unfortunately, this is a common mischaracterization.

    Networks don't have lanes, they only have 1 lane, always (unless you bring in aggregates, but we aren't doing that in Ethernet or DECA).

    So the only difference between a 10Mb, 100Mb, and 1Gb is speed - or latency. How fast my digital signal gets from point a to point b. The faster it goes, the more signal I can put on the line, the more data I send, the faster it is. But still, only 1 lane.

    The problem with speed, is I don't need it. Lets say I have an app that can handle 1Mb of data/sec and display it. Which is a better network? 10Mb, 100Mb, or 1Gb? Doesn't matter does it?

    So, in the case of both DECA and Ethernet, I have sufficient bandwidth. So speed, is irrelevant.

    I am on feet, not miles, so latency, or as an exponential value of speed*distance, is irrelevant because I don't have enough distance.

    So what is the difference?

    Prioritization. The ability to bypass the queue (window) on both the server side, in order to request a new set point in the stream (FF 30 seconds) and the client, to tell it to stop processing packets until it gets to the new setpoint.

    But... regardless, your analogy is very wrong and is focused on the wrong part of the traffic equation.
     
  5. wavemaster

    wavemaster Godfather

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    LOL - Well it has never happened that I am aware of. I suppose someday if we saturate the switches with dozens of users/appliances (which you could never get to dozens of anything with DECA) it could happen.

    My whole issue here is we are actually trying to bring all the technology in our home together, not break it apart.

    It will make it easier for D* I understand that. And I understand the differences between the two technologies. When IPV6 has greater support the whole "well DECA can prioritize" will be gone out the door and those of us with modern Ethernet networks will already be done.
     
  6. Doug Brott

    Doug Brott Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    Before distributed computing came along and defined itself as "cloud" .. People drew diagrams and created a fluffy area for sections of a network. This fluffy area is also called a "cloud."

    Most of us don't confuse the two.
     
  7. LameLefty

    LameLefty I used to be a rocket scientist

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    It already happens. Trickplay on DECA-connected devices is smoother and faster-responding for a reason (and you don't need dozens of devices on your network to notice the difference).

    Go right ahead! Hook up your fridge and your toaster for all I care. :) DECA simply moves a chunk of high-bandwidth, time-sensitive data to its own virtual place; however all you have to do is plug one box back into your router and you're just as interconnected as you were before, for stuff that benefits (Media Share, On Demand, PPV reporting, etc.).

    You will be even further in the minority than you are now, but that's okay. In the meantime, millions of consumers who not only don't know about networking gobbledygook, but don't CARE about it, get the benefits of an easy-to-deploy topology that leverages the wires they already have running around their houses, and one which provides demonstrably superior performance in certain areas like trick play.
     
  8. wavemaster

    wavemaster Godfather

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    You think users running Ethernet in their home are in the minority? This place kills me. Now I'm arguing with one of my Kids. How many DECA users are there in the MRV beta group? How many Ethernet? There is currently more homes in the US with Ethernet in them then the ENTIRE D* customer base.

    BTW - how is you computer hooked up to the net right now netBEUI? My 78 year old grand mother has Ethernet in her house.
     
  9. Phil T

    Phil T Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    Another benefit of the new DECA system (installed Sunday) is I eliminated two wireless routers that were giving me fits and disconnects on my network. So far the DECA has been flawless. I now have only one receiver hardwired to my router and its shares internet with the other two.
     
  10. dsw2112

    dsw2112 Always Searching

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    Personally I don't know that it matters either way. Like you, I don't plan on utilizing DECA for networking D* boxes, but I fail to see your larger argument that this is splintering the connected home.

    DECA is a product for proprietary D* use, and receivers still ship with ethernet ports. It seems that there is still the choice of the two. If you happen to believe that one is better than the other, then choose that option.

    In the end I suppose the same "splintering" argument could be made regarding Wifi or WAP's. After all, they are also ethernet in and RF out. I'm not sure if you feel the same way regarding these products, but at the end of the day many are happy to use them to connect to their LAN's (much like many will be happy with DECA to do the same.) I don't see how any of these products causes a connected home to "break apart"...
     
  11. Steve

    Steve Well-Known Member

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    Lower...
    And my 81 year old mom is a FiOS "quadruple-play" customer who's all MoCA. Things change. :)
     
  12. BudShark

    BudShark New Member

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    It doesn't have to be so dang confrontational does it?

    The majority of homes in the United States are not wired for Ethernet (cat5/6) to their televisions. That is a fact. Go ahead and argue with us kids.
     
  13. Doug Brott

    Doug Brott Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    Yes .. In satellite connected homes .. More have coax than have Ethernet. This is now and will always be true. Thus Ethernet is in the minority.
     
  14. BudShark

    BudShark New Member

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    Sssshhhh... I don't want everyone to hear this. netBeui is network/transport level protocol. It makes you look really bad if you compare netBeui to Ethernet, netBeui runs on top of Ethernet. Sssshhhh... might want to edit that out before someone sees it and it makes you look a bit silly arguing with people and insulting them, then turning around and making that big of a mistake... ;)
     
  15. Mike Bertelson

    Mike Bertelson 6EQUJ5 WOW! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Doesn't anyone with broadband have Ethernet in their house. It may be a direct connection from the PC to the Modem but it's probably Ethernet.

    If that's the case then by your account, less then half of DirecTV's current subs have broadband.

    I hate to disagree with you Doug but I'm not buyin' it. Every single person I know with DirecTV has broadband.

    The only friend or family member I know that doesn’t have broadband is my Mother-in-law. Heck even my 92 year old down the street has 6Mb DSL in his house.

    Granted, I’ve always lived in the north east where broadband is plentiful and fairly inexpensive so I may be in a higher concentration area then others but I still believe that more the 50% of DirecTV subs have Ethernet in some capacity in their homes.

    Of course, I’ve been wrong before. :grin:

    Mike
     
  16. BudShark

    BudShark New Member

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    Something tells me this was Wavemasters backwards point.

    The argument began with MRV - which is receiver to receiver connectivity. So staying on that level - how many homes do you think have an Ethernet infrastructure that allows them connections between TVs? That answer is pretty obvious - and Doug is right.

    If you want to get into the who has any Ethernet based product in their house, that is obviously much higher.

    In fact, by that logic, I can say non-HR24/H24 receivers are Ethernet based because they connect to the DECA using Ethernet and thus this whole argument is pointless because DirecTV is using Ethernet for MRV. :D
     
  17. wavemaster

    wavemaster Godfather

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    Right now where each are available, it isn't an issue. My suggestion to D* was don't abandon Ethernet just because your installers can't handle it. Keep a port on every box. DECA will come and go long before Ethernet ever does. Even though someone here thinks the millions of users on Ethernet are the minority.
     
  18. LameLefty

    LameLefty I used to be a rocket scientist

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    Yes.

    Unless one of your "Kids" is a 41 year old attorney and former spacecraft design engineer with an undergrad degree in aerospace engineering, I don't think that's accurate. But believe what you like. :)

    Got no clue. I have two boxes connected via DECA and the rest by ethernet.

    Speaking of "kids," I have to correct their misuses of "then" and "than" all the time. :)

    That being said, I would have to see statistics to believe that.

    Which computer? The Macs? My wife's little netbook? The three PCs? How 'bout my two XBox 360's, the PS3, the Wii, the two iPod Touches and the two iPhones? And do you mean at home or at work? :)

    And does your grandmother have MRV? Has she compared it with DECA yet or is she stuck on ethernet-only for now? Because if she hasn't compared the two for herself, making blanket statements is pretty silly. ;)
     
  19. dsw2112

    dsw2112 Always Searching

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    Keeping an ethernet port on boxes is a point I would agree with, but did not see mentioned in any of your previous comments :)
     
  20. wavemaster

    wavemaster Godfather

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    Internet Broadband Subscribers in USA
    Subscriber Statistics - June 30, 2009

    Providers


    Total Subs. at
    End of 2Q 2009


    New Subs.
    during 2Q 2009


    Change (%)

    Cable Companies


    38,005,172


    249,471


    0.66 %

    Telephone Companies


    31,897,117


    384,488


    1.22 %

    Total Broadband


    69,902,289


    633,959


    0.92 %

    Sources: The Internet Broadband provider companies and Leichtman Research Group, Inc., June 30,2009.

    ******************************************

    Of course the 69,000,000 are broadband users. There is currently over 200,000,000 "internet" users.

    My kids are not rocket scientists YET - But they all know 69mil as a much bigger number than 18.

    Of all my employees, friends and family I don't know of one without Ethernet in their home.
     

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