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Multi-Room Viewing and Static IP Addresses - Discussion

Discussion in 'DIRECTV Connected Home' started by The Merg, Oct 23, 2010.

  1. Oct 25, 2010 #81 of 393
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    You're spiraling in here to what/where the problem is I think.
    I think this is kind of a "chicken or egg" problem.
    The options look to be to:

    1. get every router maker to modify their firmware to work with DirecTV.
    2. get DirecTV to modify their firmware to work with every router.
    Think you can see where #2 seems much more realistic.
     
  2. Oct 25, 2010 #82 of 393
    E91

    E91 Godfather

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    +1 This mirrors my experience exactly.

    One other point: When I called D* to report this problem, there response was to send out a service guy to replace my DVR. They then paid my bill for a month and half to compensate me for my troubles. That fixed the problem for a week, and then it cropped up again, so D* send out a senior tech (who couldn't come up with a solution). Then, the folks here talked me through the static IP fix.

    I'm guessing the above scenario is playing itself out across the country. The reason D* should attend to the issue is it is probably costing them a pretty penny.
     
  3. Oct 25, 2010 #83 of 393
    hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    That has to be one of the most profound thoughts I've ever read. Words to live by.

    Thanks - it made my day. :D
     
  4. Oct 25, 2010 #84 of 393
    Doug Brott

    Doug Brott Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    My system is on DHCP exclusively (from DIRECTV STB perspective) and it's been bulletproof as well. I use reserved DHCP so that the STBs always have the same IP address. I use my Linux server as my DHCP server, I do not use my router except at times when my Linux server is down for an extended period. In those cases I have to manually enable the DHCP server on my router.

    So, I would never say that DHCP is the problem .. but, that's not to say that something related to the DHCP server needed to be polled is the root of the problem. Like VOS said, it may not be the source of the poop, but the poop is still there.

    As for 'well-behaved' .. the network needs to be up, functioning and available. There are a lot of (virtual) moving parts in a network and all of them need to be functioning properly. Lost DNS, too many packets, etc. etc. There are a lot of things that can cause a network to "drop" briefly causing problems. Heck, a missing terminator on a DECA network could get you into trouble. Static IP saves you the trouble of having to worry about some of the other things (sounds like what a lot of you guys are happy with) .. For me, static means going to my receivers and setting them up and if I make network changes .. possibly doing it again. I find reserved DHCP much more convenient, but static IP has a comfort level that I understand as well.
     
  5. Oct 25, 2010 #85 of 393
    David MacLeod

    David MacLeod New Member

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    I think its its D* issue but w/o deca no way for me to say for sure. on cat5 they work fine for me. I did have some issues messing with port forwarding earlier on but thats actually unrelated to mrv.
    since then I actually have moved off router based dhcp and, due to active directory setup, and using server based as I have tons more options.
    and w/o knowing how d* has the nic/deca interface setup also hard for me to offer any real evidence.
    wish there was way to capture tcp/udp traffic in realtime on BOTH sides of the broadband deca adapter to see whats happening during lease renewals. there may be, I don't know.
    I don't have formal training so this is all opinion.
    grog was doing some captures, maybe he knows a manner to do it?

    edit: also, even cheap routers do follow (albeit loosely at times) industry standards.
     
  6. Oct 25, 2010 #86 of 393
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    With some exchanges with DirecTV engineers and DECA, the broadband DECA acts merely like a component of a switch, so the DECA cloud as a whole should act/react the same as if ethernet from all the receivers connects to a switch and then to the router. Now within the cloud, we can have RF issues, but these are a separate set of problems and can be isolated by removing the router connection.
    I don't know why wireless networks changed the way my 2Wire has worked, but it has and it has for others too.
    Some have even gone to using a second router for DECA only and connected this to their wireless router, isolating their wireless DHCP from the DECA DHCP.
     
  7. Oct 25, 2010 #87 of 393
    DogLover

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    And isn't part of the point, that neither 1 or 2 is going to happen in a short timeframe. We could call static IP's a "workaround", but at this time it appears to be the only option for getting some people working.

    It may not be the "technically preferred" solution. However, if it is the only practical solution, doesn't it make it the "best" solution at this time.
     
  8. Oct 25, 2010 #88 of 393
    David MacLeod

    David MacLeod New Member

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    it should, but I believe (again opinion) its isn't. could there be rf issue within the adapter itself affecting tcp traffic?
    someone please correct me if wrong but iirc a renewal packet is different then initial lease packet. if the renewal is small it might be hitting some discard limit or interference.
    I have no knowledge if rf internally to the adapter could affect that.
     
  9. Oct 25, 2010 #89 of 393
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    :lol: If you ask a software guy and a hardware guy, what the problem is.. if they're passing the buck, it will always be the other guy's problem. If they want to fix it, it will always be theirs to resolve.
    RF & networking are the same I think. :lol:

    With the H/HR24s we can test the RF network, by getting losses between nodes and bit-rates, along with dropped sessions count.
    A broadband DECA can and has passed these tests, yet had problems on the ethernet end to the router, which was only found/resolved by swapping the DECA.
    Anything made can be defective.
     
  10. Oct 25, 2010 #90 of 393
    Richierich

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    I use the Reserved List for DHCP and that works just as well as Static IPs but it is a little different according to one poster who explained the difference but the Bottom Line is you are telling DHCP what IP Address to assign that Device based upon it's Mac Address.

    That worked well for me until I went to DECA/SWM WHDVR and now it is Flawless.
     
  11. Oct 25, 2010 #91 of 393
    The Merg

    The Merg 1*

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    I myself have a Linksys WRT160N router and use DHCP without issue on it for my network and alongside MRV. However, there are others that seem to have an issue with the same router. Considering how people have no issues with their router and their networks until they add on MRV, it seems that there is an issue with how the receviers are handling the DHCP requests. I say that specifically since I have yet to hear someone who has issues with receivers dropping off the network when they have set up their receivers with static IP addresses.

    - Merg
     
  12. Oct 25, 2010 #92 of 393
    The Merg

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    Correct. With Reserved DHCP, you are just telling the router to assign the same IP address to a particular device everytime the lease is renewed. However, as a lease still needs to be renewed, if you have these dropoff issues using just plain DHCP, you will still have that issue with reserved DHCP as well.

    - Merg
     
  13. Oct 25, 2010 #93 of 393
    CuriousMark

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    I seem to be seeing a version of this problem. My router is set to renew leases every two weeks, so I would expect if it was DHCP that the issue would recur weekly. However for me I saw it two days running over the weekend. The one difference I note is that the HR24-200 was "off". Simply turning it "on" solved the problem. I was able to see the list of what was available to play from the H24, so unless that list is cached on the H24, the HR24 seems to have been on the network. There is a lot of troubleshooting I can do to try to understand what is going on and I think I will do so for the fun of it. It is good to know that I have a static IP workaround available to me. I will probably try that as one of the troubleshooting options. For my fist step though, I set the lease period to forever on my Belkin F5d7234 router.

    This is a great discussion and I look forward to adding any useful information I can glean.
     
  14. Oct 25, 2010 #94 of 393
    Richierich

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    What you said was a brief description of what this Poster stated who was very well versed in the world of Routers. With a True "Static" IP Address it is never reassigned like the Reserved DHCP.
     
  15. Oct 25, 2010 #95 of 393
    The Merg

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    Correct. With a static IP address, the device is telling the router what its IP address is going to be, hence no lease.

    - Merg
     
  16. Oct 27, 2010 #96 of 393
    bobcamp1

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    I disagree. #1 has just as equal a chance as #2, which has as equal a chance as seeing pigs fly. That's why D* doesn't support non-DECA solutions. They don't want to test the hundreds of combinations their customers might have.

    I've seen many consumer-grade routers (i.e. the ones you get for free with your ISP or the ones in Best Buy) have problems with DHCP. Specifically, Linksys, Actiontec, Netgear, and Belkin. Add the fact that the D* receivers probably have the bare minimum hardware and firmware needed to support Ethernet, and you're asking for trouble. Eliminating DHCP and assigning static IP addresses doesn't hurt (unless it's done wrong) and can only help. It resolves more connectivity problems than you think. And it's free! What's not to like?
     
  17. Oct 27, 2010 #97 of 393
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Might as well add 2Wire to your list.
    As to "why not":
    Anybody here most likely isn't the "normal customer" and installers are never going to learn or deal with routers. The DirecTV plan is for them to plug in the broadband DECA to the router and if there are any computer/internet issues, remove the broadband DECA connection. This is the "supported method".
    Now even the supported DECA has shown to have problems for some, hence why this thread was started.
    So far, most routers look to have a range of IP addresses that are outside of the DHCP pool, "so" it is feasible for CRS/installers to simply make changes in the receiver's advanced networking menu to use static addresses.
    Now Netgear seems to NOT have any IP addresses outside of their DHCP pool, with the default settings.
    So using static won't work as well and who is going to log into the router and adjust the DHCP pool?
    Mom & pop/Joe sixpack aren't going to know how to do this.
    Does this mean either the CSR or the installer must leave the instructions for "the geek squad" or someone else to come in and make these changes? How well would this work? They may know router settings, but not understand DirecTV, so this will/could simply become another disaster where the right & left hand don't have a clue what each other is doing.
     
  18. Oct 27, 2010 #98 of 393
    houskamp

    houskamp New Member

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    Ironicaly DECA does nothing to fix a DHCP problem as it's still using the homeowners router for DHCP..
     
  19. Oct 27, 2010 #99 of 393
    RunnerFL

    RunnerFL Well-Known Member

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    I know I'm kinda late to the party and not to nitpick but... "Static DHCP" is an oxymoron. Your IP is either acquired via DHCP or it is static, but not both. I believe the term you mean is "DHCP Reservation".
     
  20. dsw2112

    dsw2112 Always Searching

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    And this is where the "supported" MRV solution gets a bit fuzzy... While it may be feasible for an installer to input a static IP into the receiver, the approach leads to problems if/when the customer switches providers/routers.

    A different router may have an IP of a different subnet (in which case MRV will work, but internet connectivity will be lost); or the router may reside on the same subnet, but the static IP may now fall in the DHCP pool.

    No great solution here, but those that find this thread will get the education needed to understand the issues ;)
     

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