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MUST I upgrade to SWM/DECA hardware for Whole Home DVR?

Discussion in 'DIRECTV Connected Home' started by eph3, Dec 19, 2010.

  1. mjwagner

    mjwagner Icon

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    For people that do not have existing wired LAN's or who are not network savy or who are just more comfortable with a completely D supported configuration by all means have DECA installed. But for people who do already have well functioning wired LAN's, who are network savy, and don't really want D contactors/installers touching their equipment/installations anyway I disagree with your statements.

    Reasons not to go DECA:
    Don't want to pay D the additional expense
    Don't want the extra equipment
    Don't want the additional complexity
    Don't want another network
    I could go on but you get the idea...

    So while the reasons not to have DECA installed are real TODAY the downside is only possible/theoretical sometime possibly in the future.

    As I mentioned before, even D's chief technologist basically admitted that the reason they went with DECA is for ease of installation and support rather than any current deficiencies in modern wired LAN technology.
     
  2. hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    A fair assessment on all points.

    Since DECA is said to be the foundation for other potential future things at DirecTV...that would be yet another motivation...
     
  3. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Frankly, only #1 makes any sense to me.
    #2 may be meaningless as the customer could already have "the equipment".
    #3 could be seen as less complexity.
    #4 If it's connected to your router, is isn't "another network", but merely an extension of your current.

    Don't get me wrong here, if one wants to use/maintain their own ethernet for MRV, then do it.
    I just find most of these "reasons not to" more fear of the unknown than "valid".
    For 18 months mine has worked flawlessly and I no longer have cat5 running/laying around the house.

    "So" to me it simply comes down to cost.
     
  4. mjwagner

    mjwagner Icon

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    I certainly agree that if you have cat5 laying around the house then you are certainly better off with DECA. The parameters I originally were that you already had installed a well architected wired LAN. That does not include having to string or lay cat5 along floors. Sorry if that was not clear.

    Point 2 - The original question was about someone who did not currently have SWM/DECA installed but did have an existing wired LAN. In that case having SWM/DECA installed would necessitate additional equipment.

    Point 3 - You say less complexity I say having yet another LAN is additional complexity...suppose we can agree to disagree... ; - )

    Point 4 - The traffic is separate and it uses diffident technology so to me it certainly is another LAN but again I will agree to disagree.

    Look, I'm really not anti DECA. It is in fact an excellent solution for the vast majority of D customers and it is unquestionably easier for the D installers to install, utilizes their existing skill set (coax), most customers existing wiring (coax), and is easier and less complex for D to troubleshoot/fix. Those are all excellent reasons for most customers to use DECA. That is why, IMHO, when you are making the case as to why someone should have DECA installed their is little reason to resort to some supposed technical inferiority of a well architected wired LAN implemented with modern 100/1000 Mbps cat5e/cat6 technology.

    Specific to that last point, it is interesting to note, as I had previously mentioned, that during the recent D investor briefing Romulo Pontual, when discussing D "Advanced In-Home Networking" did not mention any technical reasons why they went with DECA/MOCA over existing LAN technology. Instead he talked about the fact that D installers were "experts" at installing coaxial cabling and that having them install network cabling and equipment would be "completely new" and "we avoid that". His comments are here starting at time stamp 07:18, chart 6 of 19 in his section:

    http://www-waa-akam.thomson-webcast...85&portal_id=577066da84fce060a6d9470ffc282ce3
     
  5. The Merg

    The Merg 1*

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    If you have H24/HR24's, then there is no additional equipment except for the Broadband DECA. And you can look at the Broadband DECA as just a switch, since that is essentially is how it is acting. You are not creating another LAN. You have the DECA cloud, which for all purposes is just an extension of your current home network. It is, however, isolated from the rest of your network via the Broadband DECA so that MRV traffic does not interfere with your normal LAN traffic. But, that is how things would work if you isolated your receivers via a switch on an ethernet network.

    - Merg
     
  6. mjwagner

    mjwagner Icon

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    ...which is an additional piece of equipment. BTW, isn't their a power inserter required somewhere as well? Anyway, my point was that DECA would require additional equipment. A net '1' qualifies as additional...:D
     
  7. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    There is "no question" that DirecTV's intent was for this to be familiar to the techs and to limit their involvement with the customer's home network.

    I guess there may be a question of the base point and complexity. If you're still on a non SWiM setup, you're behind the times, still using BBCs, and double coax.
    SWiM has some pluses on its own, which can be seen also as simplifying the system, "and" has become the standard install.

    "Traffic":
    Doesn't a well managed ethernet use switches to manage traffic? The whole DECA cloud, when connected to your home network, acts like one big switch.

    I'm not "pushing DECA", but I do seem to be "pushing back" against those saying not to use it.

    If you have ethernet in place, then whether to use it or not simply comes down to cost, as they perform equally.
     
  8. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    "OK" trying to be as ridiculous, "a cable", "a switch" is additional equipment too. :lol:
     
  9. The Merg

    The Merg 1*

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    As stated, it is like a switch, which would also have a power supply. If you run MRV over your ethenet, this would be the best way to do it as you really want to keep the MRV traffic separate from your regular home network traffic. So, even though you need to add one additional piece of equipment, it would still be the same as an optimized home network.

    - Merg
     
  10. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    :beatdeadhorse:
     
  11. The Merg

    The Merg 1*

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    Yeah... posted mine before I saw your response.... :)

    - Merg
     
  12. mjwagner

    mjwagner Icon

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    Dunno, I implemented MRV on my existing LAN without adding any additional equipment, not a cable, switch, dongle, nothing. To add DECA would require me to add additional equipment. That was all I was saying. And that statement, for me, is unarguably true.
     
  13. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    "So" your baseline was networked receivers.
    Kind of a biased starting point, right?

    "Just as biased":
    Customer has SWiM, and H/HR24s.
    MRV is added with no additional equipment.


    BTW: I've had MRV for two years and had more issues in the first six months with ethernet than the past 18 months with DECA.

    "Everyone's mileage will vary"
     
  14. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    So to get back to the OP's question:

    [​IMG]

    No this setup isn't needed but the SWM8 can help with rainfade, to some degree, as it can/will amplify weak signals by 15 dB.
    To go DECA only requires two of them and no additional cabling to the master bedroom.
     
  15. mjwagner

    mjwagner Icon

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    Yes, YMMV. I have been running MRV since the original beta using my Ethernet LAN. The only problems I have ever experienced were problems with D's software and were fixed with follow-on releases of the code. My network has performed and continues to perform flawlessly.

    My only issue has been with some comments here in the forums indicating that an Ethernet LAN (well architected, hard wired, etc.) is somehow technically incapable of handling the traffic that the current D MRV implementation needs to flow across the network to work correctly. That is, IMHO, not correct. Their are plenty of other very valid reasons to move to DECA. That is not one of them.

    Just as a test of the robustness and capability of Ethernet. Among my other D receivers I have 2 HD-DVR's, lets call them 1 and 2, they are on different floors in my home. On 1 I started watching a HD show that was recorded on 2, and on 2 I started watching a HD show that was recorded on 1. That means that on each of the Ethernet wires attached to each of the DVR's I had two streams of HD video flowing, one out and one in. All that traffic going thru my network. It worked flawlessly including all trick play features. No pixilation, no stuttering, no delays, nothing. Rock solid. So there is empirical evidence that a well architected Ethernet LAN is more than capable of running anything that the current implementation of MRV requires.
     
  16. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    The DECA cloud is more like a smarter hub.

    A switch can establish exclusive paths bidirectionally between devices; largely without contention in MRV or download scenarios. DECA offers only one path and all devices (including your broadband router) must wait their turn as directed by the DECA adapter with the strongest signal.
     
  17. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    That may be more of an indictment of MRV than the networking technology used.
     
  18. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    On this we have been agreeing, which is why I keep coming back to "cost" as being the only reason for not moving to it.
    Someone with much more understanding of "networking stuff" has found something that "could become" a benefit with DECA, but like so many things, may never become an issue/need, so it still comes back to costs for me.
     
  19. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Someone had to PM me this:
    I'll stand by my earlier statement as it is also used by the DirecTV engineers developing DECA.
    I'll believe them over a dish sub that doesn't know what they're posting about.
     
  20. hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    As I would expect from someone who doesn't actually have or use DirecTV services, this is not really a reasonable explanation.

    It has very little to do with "directing paths", and mostly with the control and assignment of specific "frequency zones" for use as needed by DirecTV.

    VOS has explained this verbally and with diagrams quite well in other threads, as has Smiddy - both who have taken the time to detail this more than once for the benefit of folks who actually want the facts.

    There is also no "waiting" as you infer, as the IP's are within the appropriate assigned ranges, in fact, that is one of the benefits of having DECA - it is designed specifically for this purpose and within this network framework.

    To the OP - good, solid Ethernet works just fine too, but has a different design for operation - it just happens to work (for now) too. But then...there's a reason DirecTV calls it "unsupported".

    Since DECA has been indicated to be the "supported" framework for any new capabilities in the future...using it would seem to assure compatibility going forward over conventional network connections which happen to operate for the time being.
     

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