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Name-based recording discussion in regard to the 921

Discussion in 'Standard Definition Receiver Support Forum' started by pcirone, Dec 16, 2003.

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  1. pcirone

    pcirone Cool Member

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    Jan 6, 2003
    It is inconceivable to me that anyone who has ever used name based timers is happy with the 721/921 timers. Please implement this.
     
  2. tnsprin

    tnsprin Hall Of Fame

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    Mar 15, 2003
    Wrong answer. I dislike name based recording. Need much more control to avoid recording the same program multiple times or programs that match, but I don't want.

    That being said, I have no objection to adding it as an option.
     
  3. Clinton Fields

    Clinton Fields The Voom guy!

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    Dec 16, 2003
    I have never had that problem with Tivo or UltimateTV
     
  4. Clinton Fields

    Clinton Fields The Voom guy!

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    Dec 16, 2003
    It is not an intellectual property issue because everyone is doing it from set top boxes to computer software. Here is a list.

    Set top boxes: Tivo,UltimateTV,ReplayTV,Moxi
    Computer: SnapStream,Sage, ATI anywhere (coming soon) this will have the same features as the ReplayTV's network feature.


    Since they are using some form of linux for the 921 it would not be that hard to put that feature in. Look at the source code fore "myth tv" over at sourceforge.com. After looking at the code and being a programmer myself it would take a team at most 3 days to build the function. As for releasing the function, I would say a go 30 days of unit testing and QA with another 30 days of beta testing would be all it should take to have this function.

    With all the advanced features this device has Dish is doing a disservice to the unit by not add this feature because it just make this unit a hi-tech VCR. The only real thing that now separates it form a DVHS unit is dual tuners including HD and a hard drive.
     
  5. Mark Lamutt

    Mark Lamutt Your Neighborhood Liasion

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    Mar 23, 2002
    This thread is moving into the discussion realm. Please take discussion to the general dish pvr forum.
     
  6. BobMurdoch

    BobMurdoch Hall Of Fame

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    Apr 24, 2002
    The GOOD things about name based recording....

    1. SuperSized Friends episodes still get recorded in their entirety.
    2. Airdate changes (A special Monday two hour "Las Vegas" block next Monday for example) are automatically caught. Season Pass like timers could be created.

    The Bad things about name based recording.

    1. Tell it to record Queer Eye for The Straight Guy and you could wind up with 20 hours a week of recordings. Most of the same episode.
    2. When there is a name change (ie. Enterprise became Star Trek: Enterprise) you don't get the recording.
    3. What happens when the 14th showing of Queer Eye conflicts with another night when you have two OTHER timers set up? Which one gets bumped? (Most of my Dishplayer hiccups were due to this).


    E* may have decided that timer based recording was more stable and ran with that as an option. One thing they did once that I wish they would implement.... The dishplayer had a message window where they ACTUALLY warned you to redo a Friends timer because it was going to be supersized. They haven't done it since but this would alleviate the problem if they could build in a message window so that they could warn us about these exceptions. It would build up great goodwill as well.

    (Sorry, first two paragraphs were discussion, but the last paragraph is a suggestion, so hopefully that is OK)
     
  7. dbronstein

    dbronstein Hall Of Fame

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    Oct 21, 2002
    The season pass on Tivo doesn't record repeats of the same episodes. Replay allows you to specify other parameters such as the day of the week and the number of episodes to keep to mitigate this. The point is that other DVRs handle this issue just fine.

    How often does that really happen? Almost never. It's a risk I'd gladly take.

    According to the Tivo users, you can set priorities for your timers so when I conflict like this occurs, it knows which one you want it to record.

    Dennis
     
  8. dbronstein

    dbronstein Hall Of Fame

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    Oct 21, 2002
    Nope, this is the wrong answer. I never had that problem with Replay.

    Dennis
     
  9. Chris Blount

    Chris Blount Creator of DBSTalk Staff Member Administrator DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Jun 22, 2001
    Bob,

    As dbronstein said, the Tivo doesn't do this. The key to the success of the Tivo named based recording has been the fact of not what you can't do but what you CAN do and the various options.

    For instance, on top of doing name based recording, there is also the option of timer based recording if you don't "trust" the name based timer. Also, if you want the Tivo to record all of the Queer Eye For The Straight Guy episodes like you stated above, you can have it to that to by using the wishlist which will search out all shows by that name and record them.

    So you see, the Tivo name based system is very versatile with the option of timer based if you so desire.
     
  10. jgoggan

    jgoggan Hall Of Fame/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Apr 2, 2002
    How about just being able to cancel the NEXT recording without deleting the repeating schedule!?? I'd love to see that. I'm tired of letting it record re-runs that I know are coming just because there isn't an easy way to have it NOT do that without deleting the repeating event itself. Bah.

    - John...
     
  11. Karl Foster

    Karl Foster Hall Of Fame

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    Mar 23, 2002
    On Ultimatetv, anyting recorded on a Auto-Record (like Tivo wishlist) or a Series Record (like Tivo Season Pass), a show that has been recorded will no re-record for thirty days. If the program descriptions match in the guide, they will not re-record. We record Queer Eye on an Auto-Record, and it only records once a week, even though the show repeats several times. There is no additional interaction or babysitting on my part.
     
  12. Chris Blount

    Chris Blount Creator of DBSTalk Staff Member Administrator DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Jun 22, 2001
    That is what the Tivo season pass is all about. It will not record the reruns. Only the new shows.

    P.S. Sorry Dish owners. If this discussion progresses any further into Tivo, I will move it to the DirecTV forums.
     
  13. generalpatton78

    generalpatton78 Godfather

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    Dec 17, 2003
    I'm a Dish customer and a Tivo lover. I can tell you the way Tivo does there recordings is perfect. I plan on getting the 921 for Hdtv purposes. I love my programing with Dish but I think there DVR services lack compared to Tivo
    interms of recording options. I'm getting the 921 because I'm laying down some serouis cash for HDTV might as well do it right and get the 921 also! I'm hoping Dish a) hires some Tivo programers away or B) Works some type of deal out with Tivo one day, but I know B will proably never happen. I wonder if part of the problem isn't the program guid. Tivo has you make a call and get the info and I know that costs alot of cash for Tivo to set up and thats why they charge extra. Dish seems to use the Sat to download info and I always found that anoying on my non DVR rec.! Does the Dish DVR recievers work difrent on terms of downloading the program from th Sat?
     
  14. Mark Lamutt

    Mark Lamutt Your Neighborhood Liasion

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    Mar 23, 2002
    Yes, they do. Up to 9 days of guide data is stored locally on the hard drives of the Dish DVR receivers. So, while the receiver still downloads guide data from the satellites, it's just to refresh the 9 day supply that's stored locally.
     
  15. retiredTech

    retiredTech Icon

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    Oct 27, 2003
    My 2 cents

    There is a flaw in name based recording , that every post I've
    seen doesn't address.

    If you are only interested in series programs, and KNOW the name of that series, then name based is less effort.

    But what about programs that are new or a one of a kind. Not all programs worth watching are some series. I personally dislike most series programs. I like a wide variety of programs and what I am interested in could not be determined strictly by name or even category.
    I enjoy researching and determining WHAT I watch on a case by case basis.
    I know that the "Tivo" (or the other name based boxes) would NOT pick out "all and only" what I want to record and watch.
    I guess those who have less time and think reading the guide is a chore,
    would think I'm nuts.
    But you know not all cars are made with automatic transmissions.
    Some actually like to do the shifting.
     
  16. Chris Blount

    Chris Blount Creator of DBSTalk Staff Member Administrator DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Jun 22, 2001
    You would be surprised at what the Tivo can do. After a certain amount of time, the Tivo learns what type of programming you like and automatically records it for you. This feature can be a pain sometimes and be disabled but I have come to trust it more now that I have had my Tivos for a couple of months. The auto record feature has already found some "one of a kind" shows that I never knew existed. It also found the third movie in a trilogy that I have been looking for for many years.

    I don't really want to go too much deeper into this in the Dish forum. All I can tell you is that the name based recording way of life is much different than timer based.
     
  17. dbronstein

    dbronstein Hall Of Fame

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    Oct 21, 2002
    You can still do this on Tivo or Replay or any other DVR with name-based recording. You find the show you want to watch and create a one-time timer for it.

    You miss the point that other DVRs have name-based recording in addition to time-based recording, not instead of it. You can still do everything you've said you want to do.

    Dennis
     
  18. generalpatton78

    generalpatton78 Godfather

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    Dec 17, 2003
    Retired Tech your missing some of the point us Tivo users are saying. We are saying ADD these features not ADD these and take away those. If you like you way of setting up timers keep doing it. Name based recording work very well. I'll give you an example. I like Friends and I have the "super station" pack so Friends is on like 10 a day. With name based recordings I can look up friends by name and see every episodes time and date, episode title and a description plus episode number. I can then pick out what ones I want it to record and not record. If this is to much work make a season pass set it's priority listing and whether you want reruns or not and off you go. Tivo still has a regular guide as well with Dish grid style and the original style that you can look threw if you want. It also has Timer based recordings as well that does everything my dish rec can do on timers. I love Dish Nets programing but there Dish DVRs need better software still. So far from what I've heard there basically digital VCRs. I have Tivo and I love it and won't give it up and I love Dish programing won't give it up. I plan on getting a 921 because you can't beat a 250 gig two tuner HDTV compatible receiver, but Dish NEEDS to get name based recordings or they should not charge a Video on Demand fee and we all know that!
     
  19. kstevens

    kstevens Icon

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    Mar 26, 2003
    No, you know that, those of us who don't care about name based timers don't really care.


    Ken
     
  20. Chris Blount

    Chris Blount Creator of DBSTalk Staff Member Administrator DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Jun 22, 2001
    I don't know how many times we need to go down this road. Everyone has their opinion as to how timers should be set on DVR's. If you are happy with timer based recording, that's fine. What really kind of gets my goat is that people who cut on name based recording have never used a Tivo for any length of time.

    I have owned a Dishplayer, 501, 508, 721 and now a DirecTivo. I see both sides of the fence. Both types of timers have their strengths a weaknesses. It's kind of pointless to argue which one is better because its all a matter of preference and how they are used.
     
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