1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Welcome to the new DBSTalk community platform. We have recently migrated to a community platform called Xenfono and hope you will find this change to your liking. There are some differences, but for the most part, if you just post and read, that will all be the same. If you have questions, please post them in the Forum Support area. Thanks!

NASCAR 2014 / 2015

Discussion in 'Sports Programming and Events' started by James Long, Jan 21, 2014.

  1. Jan 21, 2014 #1 of 315
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator

    44,856
    859
    Apr 17, 2003
    Michiana
    If what I've heard proposed goes into effect I may be done with NASCAR.

    NASCAR wants to adjust the chase to create a playoff system. The current proposal is to chose the top 16 drivers at the end of the first 26 weeks based on wins ... then every three races eliminate four drivers from the championship, reset the points and let the final four battle for the championship in ONE RACE winner take all event.

    I hate it.

    NASCAR says they want more "game seven moments" but in my opinion this is too much manipulation. Imagine the world series - or another best of seven series - where one team wins four straight games. Not enough drama ... so make them play three more. Only the last game counts. In such a series one team could win six games in a row but lose the last game and lose the championship. That level of manipulation is NOT a "game seven" moment. It is a cheap stunt.

    I hope the proposal goes away ... I do not mind the chase being made up of winners. Win and you're in regardless of how many drivers make the chase. If you don't win a race you don't make the chase. That sounds good to me. But leveling the points every three races and making the final race the only one that matters for the championship goes too far.
     
  2. Jan 21, 2014 #2 of 315
    jimmie57

    jimmie57 Hall Of Fame

    6,364
    290
    Jun 26, 2010
    Texas City, TX
    Sounds like many of the other sports except there would be 4 possible to win instead of 2.

    I like Nascar. Watch it all the time.
    I like Drag Racing. Watch it all the time also.

    Will be start your engines real soon now.

    Can't wait to see how the new outfit / drivers, etc. at Stewart Haas racing do this year with all the changes.
     
  3. Jan 21, 2014 #3 of 315
    kikkenit2

    kikkenit2 Icon

    685
    1
    Oct 25, 2006
    Nascar is a joke and this proves it. The only sport/race where the favorite competitor never wins.
    They should make a rule that lets Junior win once in a while.
     
  4. Jan 21, 2014 #4 of 315
    jimmie57

    jimmie57 Hall Of Fame

    6,364
    290
    Jun 26, 2010
    Texas City, TX
    The crowd would go wild if Dale won again. He is overdue for sure.
     
  5. Jan 22, 2014 #5 of 315
    Cyber36

    Cyber36 Legend

    274
    1
    Mar 20, 2008
    Byron NY
    Yeah, change all the rules back to 1980. Let"s go racin boys!!
     
  6. Jan 22, 2014 #6 of 315
    yosoyellobo

    yosoyellobo Icon

    2,692
    154
    Nov 1, 2006
    Jacksonville Fl
    Can you imagine the last four getting wipe out on the first lap. Change is not always good.
     
  7. Jan 22, 2014 #7 of 315
    jimmie57

    jimmie57 Hall Of Fame

    6,364
    290
    Jun 26, 2010
    Texas City, TX
    That is a nasty thought for sure and it is possible for all 4 to get wiped out if it is a wreck, multiple wrecks and or a combination with mechanical failures.
     
  8. Jan 22, 2014 #8 of 315
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator

    44,856
    859
    Apr 17, 2003
    Michiana
    Trying to make NASCAR like other sports will always fail ... it isn't like other sports.

    The NFL has 32 teams ... they pair up for games and every week half of the teams that play win. When the playoffs begin the teams that don't make the cut end their season. Each week teams are eliminated until two play for the championship.

    The NBA has 30 teams ... they too pair up for games and half of the teams that play each day win. They have win or go home playoffs (best of seven games) and a championship series (best of seven games).

    MLB has 30 teams ... paired up for series of games with half of the teams in each game winning. Their playoffs are best of five games for the divisions and best of seven for the league and world series championship.

    At no time are more than two teams playing in each NFL, NBA or MLB event. The NFL does not put all 32 teams on the same field every weekend to see who is best and who comes in 32nd. Wouldn't that be fun? Even putting a quarterback for each team on the field and watch them scramble over the same football to see which one could get it over the goal line would be fun. But you don't see the NFL trying that. Nor the NBA or MLB.

    Why does NASCAR need to be like other sports? It is a futile effort. If NASCAR really wanted to be like other sports they would start the chase with the best teams and send all the other teams home. The fall Chicago race would be 16 teams ... Homestead would be just the four finalists. The other 40+ teams would be barred from the track!

    NASCAR won't do that because of sponsorships. Sponsors won't buy the first 26 races and maybe a few more (if their driver is good). Sponsors want to be on the track for as many races as the sponsor can afford. Even if their driver comes in 43rd they get some exposure. Which means for all the bluster of trying to be more like other sports the one thing that is missing the most - elimination from the final events - will never happen.

    And who would go to Homestead to watch a four car shootout?

    One other thing NASCAR is missing is a change of venue. Why is the championship always in Homestead? Nothing against that track but the NFL, NBA and MLB don't have their championship in the same city every year. If NASCAR wants to be more like other sports why not move the championship every year?

    It is time for NASCAR to stop ... take a step back and remember who THEY are and stop trying to be something they are not.
     
  9. Jan 22, 2014 #9 of 315
    djlong

    djlong Hall Of Fame

    4,343
    57
    Jul 8, 2002
    New Hampshire
    One rule change I'd make if I were NASCAR Emperor For A Day is I would radically change qualifying. The changes for road courses were a step in the right direction but not enough. For those guaranteed a spot, sure, you can take practice times and set that part of the field that way. For those NOT in the top 35, though - race your way in. Shorter heat races to determine who gets in and where on the grid they start. It would be a bit of a throwback to their roots and CERTAINLY more entertaining than watching 45 drivers take 2 laps each all by their lonesomes.
     
  10. Jan 22, 2014 #10 of 315
    fluffybear

    fluffybear Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

    7,315
    38
    Jun 19, 2004
    Peachtree...
    I wouldn't mind seeing that final race moved around as well.
     
  11. Jan 22, 2014 #11 of 315
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator

    44,856
    859
    Apr 17, 2003
    Michiana
    The proposed changes to qualifying are interesting ... and less of an impact since it only affects how cars line up and not how the races are run or the championship is scored.

    The proposal is to have open qualifying sessions where all cars take to the track at the same time and they qualify based on the fastest lap anytime in the window when the session is open. The top 35 is apparently going away as well (which will be bad the first time a "superstar" doesn't make the race). It sounds like you're the emperor on this one, djlong.

    Now please, fix the chase by NOT changing it to the proposal. :D
     
  12. Jan 22, 2014 #12 of 315
    jimmie57

    jimmie57 Hall Of Fame

    6,364
    290
    Jun 26, 2010
    Texas City, TX
    I want them to qualify in Race Trim and do 3 laps. Then the cars can not be worked on until after the race starts.
    I would also like to see the cautions laps not count. The race would be all Green Flag laps.
     
  13. Jan 23, 2014 #13 of 315
    fluffybear

    fluffybear Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

    7,315
    38
    Jun 19, 2004
    Peachtree...
    be thankful that NASCAR doesn't follow IRL and end races under caution.
     
  14. Jan 23, 2014 #14 of 315
    jimmie57

    jimmie57 Hall Of Fame

    6,364
    290
    Jun 26, 2010
    Texas City, TX
    They did that several years ago. It was the pits.
     
  15. Jan 23, 2014 #15 of 315
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator

    44,856
    859
    Apr 17, 2003
    Michiana
    Green white checkered and double file restarts were a major improvement.
    Resetting the points for the final four and awarding the championship based on one race is not.

    Of course, it isn't surprising that the one track that will get to host the one race to decide the winner is owned by International Speedway Corporation - majority owned and controlled by the France family. NASCAR has always been the France family owned sport. I wish it were operated as a democracy not as a monopoly dictatorship.
     
  16. Jan 24, 2014 #16 of 315
    djlong

    djlong Hall Of Fame

    4,343
    57
    Jul 8, 2002
    New Hampshire
    That *really* creeped me out... Literally HOURS after I posted that, the story on changing qualifying to a "more racing-like" format comes out...

    I wonder if I should talk about how SOME races should be rotated at tracks that draw 'ok' but not a sellout. Darlington went from having 2 races that suffered from low attendance to 1 race that sells out like crazy. If a few races per year were 'rotated', then Fontana could probably sell out every OTHER year and other tracks could get a taste of NASCAR without upsetting the hard core fans too much.
     
  17. Jan 24, 2014 #17 of 315
    jimmie57

    jimmie57 Hall Of Fame

    6,364
    290
    Jun 26, 2010
    Texas City, TX
    I think I will like the new qualifying since it will be like the race and not just going fast 1 lap and overheating.
     
  18. Jan 31, 2014 #18 of 315
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator

    44,856
    859
    Apr 17, 2003
    Michiana
    OK ... I understand that people play the game by the rules that are in place (notwithstanding when they stretch the rules). So any look at previous years results calculated with this year's formula are not to be considered accurate. A driver going into the last race in Homestead knowing he has to beat the other three drivers still in the chase is going to drive differently than a driver who just has to play it safe and finish 22nd. (One reason why NASCAR is changing the system ... the anti-climatic 22nd place finish for the champion. NASCAR fans understand that the champion one six or seven races earlier in the year ... but in the instant society the whole game has to be played in one sitting.)

    Drivers will drive differently this year. But that being said ... I took last year's race results and ran them through the 2014 chase formula - which was officially announced this morning.

    Assuming 16 drivers make the chase. This includes 11 winners of previous races and (I assume) the top non winners to make a grid of 16. The NASCAR website mentions the top 15 winners plus the top points person if they have no wins will be the chasers but I don't see what happens if there are not 16 winners. (Comparing to other sports - wouldn't it be stupid if the Sweet 16 only had 11 teams?)

    Per NASCAR the winners must also be in the top 30 in points - and must attempt to qualify for all 26 races. So Tony Stewart who won and finished 23rd in points would be out for not attempting to qualify. NASCAR says that they would make an exception for extraordinary circumstances - so I assume that if Denny Hamlin would have come back and won in the first 26 his missed races would be forgiven. I don't know if a driver suspended for a race by NASCAR would be instantly removed from the chase for missing qualifying.

    Back to the hypothetical ...
    The Challenger Round - 16 drivers starting the chase with 2000 points plus three points per win in the first 26 (similar to 2013 rules). A win is an instant pass to the next round. The lowest drivers after three races are eliminated. 2014 math run on 2013 race results the eliminations would be: Carl Edwards, Joey Logano, Kasey Kahne and David Ragan. Four drivers with six combined wins. The five winless drivers remain.

    The points reset to an even 3000 for the remaining 12.

    The Contender Round - 12 drivers start with 3000 points and run three races. A win is an instant pass to the next round. The lowest drivers after the three races are eliminated. 2014 math run on 2013 race results the eliminations would be: Kyle Busch, Greg Biffle, Martin Truex Jr and Ryan Newman. At this point eight drivers with 13 wins would be eliminated. Jamie McMurray entered winless but won at Talladega so he advances.

    The points reset to an even 4000 for the remaining 8. The four eliminated drivers go back to the 2000+ point calculation (as if they did not make the round).

    The Eliminator Round - 8 drivers start with 4000 points and run three races. A win is an instant pass to the next round. The lowest drivers after the three races are eliminated. 2014 math run on 2013 race results the eliminations would be: Matt Kenseth, Clint Boyer, Kurt Busch and Jamie McMurray. At this point 12 drivers with 21 wins would be eliminated. Only one winless driver remains in the top 4. Three of the final four cars are from Hendrick Motorsports.

    The Sprint Cup Championship Race - first of the four across the line wins. No bonus points for leading laps. 2014 math run on 2013 race results the winner and Sprint Cup Champion would be ...

    Not Jimmie Johnson (6 wins).
    Not Kevin Harvick (4 wins).
    Not Jeff Gordon (1 wins).

    The winless driver gets the championship. Dale Earnhardt Jr.

    I guess that would be called an "upset" - at least it would be in stick and ball sports.

    Restating the disclaimer ... under 2014 rules drivers will race differently knowing that mistakes in the set of three races they are in could eliminate them completely and knowing they have to beat their competition in the final race. But seeing eight race winners be the first to be eliminated from the championship series seems strange.

    If my assumption about having a full field of 16 is wrong there would have been an 11 driver chase and Matt Kenseth would have been the champion.

    So two ways to look at it ... either it is manipulated to allow America's favorite NASCAR driver to win a championship or the last driver to win a championship before the chase began wins again. Fun with numbers. :)

    PS: NASCAR doesn't need an upset victory champion. Upset victories are good for a race - but not a racing championship. leave that to people who play with sticks and balls.
     
  19. Jan 31, 2014 #19 of 315
    4HiMarks

    4HiMarks Hall Of Fame

    1,550
    31
    Jan 21, 2004
    Laurel, MD
    I like the change. I think it is going to lead to more exciting races all year long. The previous system rewarded consistency and timidity mostly. Get a mechanically sound car ($, not skill), stay in the top 5 or top 10, don't take any chances, and make the Chase. Now, it matters much less if you're banging fenders side-by-side for the win on the last lap at Daytona and you wreck and finish 29th, last car on the lead lap. Next week is another race, and you only need one win on the season to make it. You're going to see more drivers taking more chances all year, especially when they get to their favorite track or one they historically do well at, instead of just at the last few races before the Chase starts.

    I worry that taking all those risks is going to compromise driver safety though.

    I like the idea of rotating the final race among several tracks, like the BCS did with Bowl games. It would have to be a warm weather venue, but I could see rotating between Homestead, Atlanta, Phoenix, Texas, and maybe California.
     
  20. Feb 1, 2014 #20 of 315
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator

    44,856
    859
    Apr 17, 2003
    Michiana
    NASCAR says the new format makes it simple ... but the pundits are confused. I was listening to Dave Moody on NASCAR SiriusXM Channel 90 who dismissed without explanation the possibility of a winless driver (such as Dale Jr last year) ever winning the chase. His claim was the only winless driver that would be possible for would be a winless points leader at the end of the 26 races ... but he is wrong. NASCAR will pad out the field of 16 to include winless drivers who are not the points leader - and as long as winless drivers can advance (and they can) they can make it to the final race and win a championship by beating three specific drivers.

    If Dave Moody can be confused by the new format the casual fans NASCAR is targeting have no hope.

    The points change in 2011 tightened up the championship and made every position on the track count. Losing the championship by one point could be done by not being ahead of one car any time during the chase - which pushed all of the chase drivers to get the best finish possible every race - not just the races where they had a good car. This change puts too much emphasis on winning. Win Chicago and you might as well start and park the next two races - you're in!

    The chase tightened up the points so any of the top 10 then 12 (or 13) top drivers could win the championship - but managed to do it in a way that performance in past races always mattered. Now we'll have seven races to go with the slate clean except for being in the top 8. A winless driver equal to a driver with seven or more wins? Not good.

    NASCAR's pundits are asking people to give the new format a chance ... there isn't much we can do about it anyways since NASCAR controls the rules. Hopefully this year will suck as much as the people who are against the change believe it will and NASCAR will get it's head back in the game.

    The pundits say that it adds excitement ... I say that when the tornado sirens go off and I head for shelter I get excited. When I hit a patch of black ice when driving and the car starts to spin I get excited. When all of the systems at work seem to shut down at the same time I get excited ... and so does my boss, the VP and the CEO. Excitement is not always a good thing. :)
     

Share This Page