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Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by HailScroob, Jun 27, 2005.
completely negative, worthless post deleted.
More likely people watching them....
I'm getting really sick of posts like this that do nothing. In fact, I'm deleting it. Some negativity is fine, if it's constructive, but this has absolutely no constructive value.
.......let the book burning begin.......
I don't know Mark...
Here is a thread started by HailScroob on June 2nd, 2005:
"So the 942 gets yet ANOTHER significant update, while we losers with a 921 continue to sit and wait as weeks and months go flying by.
Who's working on 921 anyway? Are we sure that "Eldon" isn't just the name of Charlie's 9 year old nephew? Who works on the 921 software while his PSP is recharging?"
Pretty negative if you ask me but it generated 2 pages of dialog. A lot of it was just whining but much of it was information I didn't know. I don't really like negative posts either and just skip over the parts that have no value for me. Then I can learn, laugh or cry about the rest of it.
There are of course many reasons for deleting a post:
1. Personal attacks
2. Foul language
3. Links to inappropriate websites
4. Off topic
For me, negativity is not one of them.
Personally, I appreciate the job you are doing trying to answer our questions and inform us of the latest from Dish. If a post does not fall into one of the 4 above, I would prefer to do my own censoring though. Thanks
Well, for me it is. Particularly on an issue like the 921 and its reliability or lack thereof that has been written about so often over the last 18 months that it has to be the number one issue discussed on this board (even more than last year's Presidential election).
So the persistent negativity indicates both a lack of judgment (as in why not read the posts others have written on the 921 before you buy rather than after) as well as inconsideration for others on this forum. I won't attempt to speak for the mods, but my guess is they get tired of answering the same questions time and time again.
If all someone wants to do is piss and moan about E* and their management practices, they should either vote with their feet (take their business someplace else), take it up with someone who can address their needs, or take it up with someone who cares.
I agree with tecman. we do live in a democracy and not a third world country where the henchman do the dirty work of the state or corporation. and not saying mark is that of course.
Sure, all posts should be allowed. But, this is the 921 support forum.
10 Page threads existing for the sole purpose of letting off steam should be able to live in one of the other forums.
Not everyone has the time and energy to sift through those threads on the chance that they contain useful information.
Send them over to "Satellite Guys"
Actually you don't need to go that far to vent. Venting should be done in the Regular Dish Network forums. The support forums have different rules and their are reasons for them. If you think we are just doing this as some power trip, go read the forum rules for the 921 and the 811 and hopefully you will understand.
This is not some censorship, book burning, or some conspercy to infringe on your 1st admendment rights. The support forums serve a certain purpose and with it comes some guidelines we ask for people to follow.
Mark actually has been rather relaxed because he knows there is a high level of frustration with 921 users. So if you don't want rant to be removed, edited or deleted from this forum, simple put it into the Dish Network area. If you feel the hairs on the back of your neck rising up as you type or your muscles tighting or you get a sick feeling etc, those are all excellent indications that you should cut what you just typed and move it over to the Dish Network area. This is not rocket science here folks, we are asking for your help here and if you don't understand the rules, PM one of us and we will gladly clarify them.
Move the post/thread! Don't delete it. When a forum has a reputation of "book burning" as it was earlier referred to, those of us who know that reputation exists, will also know that when some negativity is permitted we have to guess how much was censored from our view. I would have to assume that the situation is worse than it is and the forum administrators have quashed the sentiment to make the situation look not as bad as it is. This is the sort of thing that sends members to other forums and bad mouth this forum, saying that the forum administrators censor you if they disagree with you. When examples like this exist, how can one defend it their actions.
Basically, I agree with tecman. However, I do agree that this section should have tighter posting rules for tech support. Many here have been loose with those rules, including myself. Why? because the enforcement is too inconsistent. Essentially, it is a loose ship! If I had my choice, this section should be for strictly helping others with work arounds and issues discussion. Have a section for griping and negative comments or move them to general dish section. Keep this section for 921 user support. Move all Eldon and E* bashing to the General Dish section, or add a "complaint/ bashing section" to this area. This would probably be a good idea because it would give the admins a real valid excuse to keep "complaint" nature posts in a place and leave support clean for here.
Do you for one second actually believe that every single person who is considering buying a 921 should/would find this site to get info on the 921 before buying it? Maybe there are people that do that much research, but they are the exception not the rule. Unless DISH starts making this site mandatory reading before someone makes a purchase, I really don't see that happening.
I'm sure there are quite a few 921 owners who have never found this site. Those are the folks I really feel sorry for because they have to rely on Dish to provide all the answers - and if they're anything like the answers I got (there's nothing wrong with the 921....NBR will be added in an upcoming software upgrade) they're pretty frustrated customers.
In general I think the majority of people here came here after purchasing a Dish product, not before...
I know I found this site after I purchased the 921 in February of 2004.
Ummm... I have one of the first 921's shipped by Dish Depot, and at the time this forum wasn't full of the horror stories that it now is. And, until L211, I was pretty darn happy with my 921. It did everything I asked it to do, never missed a recording and generally behaved on a par with, say, a Windows 98 PC – not great, but pretty good.
Until L211, I was a huge 921 supporter. Yeah, it’s not an HD Tivo, but it still does everything I need it to do. But L211 was released in DECEMBER – and the issues that update inflicted upon us are still not fixed. And that’s why I have gotten so negative. Like many people on this forum, I too am a software engineer, and I fully understand that in a complex system a change “over here” can unintentionally mess up something “over there,” but I cannot fathom how 7 months have passed with no appreciable improvement in the software.
Oh, and for the record, I made a joke. I didn’t bash Eldon. I didn’t bash Charlie, or Dish. I didn’t bash Mark or Allen. I didn’t try to organize a class action lawsuit. I didn’t fuss about NBR or DishWire. I just made a joke about why there was almost no activity on this forum over the weekend.
It's one thing for Mark to just delete a post he finds distasteful or pointless - that's a moderator's perogative, after all. It's quite another thing to replace my post with his own snarky comments and leave everyone to wonder what horrible, inappropriate, offensive thing HailScroob said to incur such wrath.
Moving to general area where this belongs.
Bashing in the support areas is prohibited by the forum rules. The support forums are intended to be an area dedicated to constructive feedback and help. If you wish to Bash then go to the General forums.
Please try to remember that this is a private computer system.
I would suggest those who have an insatiable desire to bash the 921 move on to sattelliteguys.us. Maybe Scott can set up a special 921 bashing forum and place directtv banner ads on top and bottom of the forums. And maybe set it up that when ever any one posts they get a pop up ad offering free directv HD equipment from one of his many sponsors!!
I like the post moving idea.. it reminds me back in the good ole days of the BBS world. In our area most boards often had a "Slander" message board to handle the flame wars. If people need to get something off their chest (and they usually did), that was the place to go. Not a place some people would want to visit, but it got it offline. Of course it did have an effect where flame wars would "bleed" into the other forums but that can be contained.
So maybe just a parking lot forum for these things would be good?
It is a hard decision to remove a post, but nothing is really black and white. If the post is not meant to create dialog but just to enforce someone's ideas on everyone else, then I agree the moderator should remove it. I don't believe this forum's purpose is to "vent" and as such the moderator could remove and could show their disapproval of such a message by leaving the remnants.
Actually this was done exactly as you described in post one of this thread. So it appears others like your idea as well.
I can't comment on the deleted message that I never got to read... but to the "this is a democracy" sentiment...
The thing about freedom is... it also means you have the freedom to create a forum to run with rules as you see fit... and since none of us own the forum, we are subject to the rules set forth by those who do... so deleting and censoring messages on a forum like this doesn't bother me.
It isn't public television or a national newspaper claiming to be an unbiased journalistic outlet for news... it's a forum...
Unless it was blatantly offensive, such as racist, sexist, callaing for physical harm or property damage, there is really no excuse for removal. Simply moving it to the DN Genral forum would have sufficed.
Actually, the comment: "Are we sure that "Eldon" isn't just the name of Charlie's 9 year old nephew? Who works on the 921 software while his PSP is recharging?" was quite funny. Not offensive in the least. Has humor been banned at dbstalk?
As for the many comments about pointless, negative threads belonging in "that other forum", that is just another example of the weird competition and emotional attatchment I often see on THIS forum, but it is usually associated with Dish Network itself, not the forum. I guess it was only a matter of time before the creepy emotional attachment to a TV provider utility spilled over to the forum itself.