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new 1080p guide not 1080p

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by TheClassic, Dec 15, 2011.

  1. TheClassic

    TheClassic New Member

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    So I got the new guide, and it seems pretty slick, however the output is still at the same resolution as the signal being viewed when the guide is entered. IE I'm watching something broadcast in 720p, enter the guide, and the signal to my tv is still 720p while displaying the guide. Why are they calling the new guide 1080p?
     
  2. Stuart Sweet

    Stuart Sweet The Shadow Knows!

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    Because it is 1080p when you are watching 1080p content. If you turn native off, you can set it always output 1080i or 1080p, and the guide will always be 1920x1080.
     
  3. TheClassic

    TheClassic New Member

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    Thanks, I tried turning native off, but the output is only 1080i. I already had 1080p selected in the settings, and I've even tried de-seelcting 1080i. My tv does support 1080p/24, and I haven't had any problems with my Blu-ray player. Is there a trick to enabling 1080p on the dvr? I have the HR23. In case its relevant, I have a Sony KDL-46V5100

    I just disabled and re-enabled 1080p and it temporarily gave me a 1080p signal until I confirmed that it appeared correctly. After I confirmed the signal, it reverted to 1080i.
     
  4. Stuart Sweet

    Stuart Sweet The Shadow Knows!

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    The only 1080p content is ppv movies.
     
  5. TheClassic

    TheClassic New Member

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    LOL, so they advertise a 1080p guide that you only experience while you're watching an OnDemand movie? Disappointing, but the new UI, is a bit cleaner.
    I wasn't sure how they were going to handle the signal format switching (displaying 1080p guide while watching non 1080p source) without a little delay. Now I get it.
    Thanks!
     
  6. Shades228

    Shades228 DaBears

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    So pull it up with a 1080p screen on and then compare it to the 1080i screen. I don't think a non interlaced screen is going to have an impact on the graphics you're seeing.

    If the guide displayed in 1080p they would have to turn off PIG on everything but an on demand.
     
  7. TheClassic

    TheClassic New Member

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    Feb 23, 2010
    I don't have any graphics problems, I was just expecting the guide to always be in 1080p. I do think 720p does not look good when forced to 1080i. I was just thinking 1080p guide would allow smaller text and thus a bigger range of channels and time. I figured the PIG would just be scaled similarly to how different sources are scaled when you turn native off.
     
  8. Shades228

    Shades228 DaBears

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    The receivers don't upscale to 1080p so that means the video being displayed on the screen would not work.
     
  9. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    The guide is just one level of overlay - not a TV signal 720/1080 i/p.
    I.e. pixels [bits] from a frame buffer - pure RAM content created by program/code.
     
  10. MizzouTiger

    MizzouTiger Icon

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    Not that it really matters to me, but now that it's been brought up, why would DirecTv advertise that the new HD guide is in 1080p then? They say it right on their website that the guide is 1080p, with the only footnote being that you need an HD DVR (HR20 or later) or HD receiver (H21 or later) along with an HDMI cable connecting the receiver to an HD television capable of 1080p/24. It says nothing about the requirement to be viewing 1080p content in order to get the guide at 1080p, which it appears can only occur when you buy a 1080p PPV movie. In my opinion, they should not have ever brought up the 1080p guide capability and just left it as an "HD guide". Seems like they were trying to "oversell" it.
     
  11. Stuart Sweet

    Stuart Sweet The Shadow Knows!

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    I'm not going to disagree with you there. I think that there's a disconnect between the technical and marketing people that's leading to this kind of advertising, as well as the now well-documented "pause and then start again in another room" ad.
     
  12. Jon J

    Jon J Grouch Extrordinaire

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    Which, I believe, is still running. ;)
     
  13. gio12

    gio12 Icon

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    You REALLY need your guide in 1080p? Really?? OMFG! I know I can be negative and critical about DIRECTV at times, but this is funny!

    The new UI is fast as hell, looks great and it much, much better.

    Dude, its a TV GUIDE, not a show and you REALLY need 1080p resolution?

    DIRECTV, you did a AWESOME job wit the new UI!
     
  14. allenn

    allenn Icon

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    I agree as well. D* did a great job on the HDUI!
     
  15. CCarncross

    CCarncross Hall Of Fame

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    Slow news day, the guy had to complain about something...:lol:
     
  16. TomCat

    TomCat Broadcast Engineer

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    This is not relevant. The source may be different, but it is still completely identical to what is found in a "TV signal". Bits are bits, and the pixels they represent come at you in exactly the same fashion from either a TV signal or a GUI if it is formatted the same.

    All quite true. You also potentially might get a brief glitch or even a HDMI handshake mute every time you go to and from the GUI if it has to switch to a different format (1080p of the GUI vs 1080i or 720p from 99.99% of HD content) each time.

    The only thing 1080p as a signal format enjoys as an improvement over 1080i is elimination of interlace error on motion. On a GUI, there really is no real motion (unless its Tivo, I guess). If you have no motion you can't have interlace error artifacts, so it is visually exactly equivalent to 1080p even if it is 1080i. IOW, you will likely not see a difference, and if you do, count that up to your imagination and the placebo effect only. What is sent to your eyes is identical in either case, although how you perceive either is based on what you expect to perceive based on what you might have been told. You will only see an improvement in a 1080p GUI over a 1080i GUI if you have convinced yourself, and quite incorrectly I might add, that it will appear better.

    And again, 1080p the display format is not quite the same thing as 1080p the signal format. Virtually all FPs are progressive, so if native rez is 1920x1080, they are 1080p by definition, as is every photon that makes the trip from your display to your retinas regardless of what the source signal is formatted as. Interlaced video is still always displayed progressively.

    But that is display format, and 1080p had no real advantage over 1080i as a display format for 1080i content or even, for that matter, for 1080p content. But people mistakenly equate "1080p" with "must be an improvement over 1080i" all the time, even though it only applies to the signal format and never applies to the display format.

    But as a signal format, well that's somewhat different. 1080p does indeed have an advantage over 1080i as a signal format, and that is the lack of temporal artifacts mentioned above for moving content. But there is also a PQ tradeoff, as available 1080p content is typically 1080p24 (unless it is from a game system), meaning that there is motion artifacting from the lower frame rate. And that pretty much neutralizes the advantage of eliminating the interlace motion artifacts to where 1080p and 1080i look extremely similar. You either get one sort of motion artifact or the other, neither of which you get with 720p, which is why it is perceptually not really different from either 1080i or 1080p24, and why no one can pick which signals are 1080i, 720p, or 1080p24 in a double-blind study. We just can't, none of us, tell them apart on sight.

    And most TVs are 1080p60, meaning they add no motion artifacts of their own. Ironically, a set that multisyncs to 1080p24 when that content is available may appear worse to some folks than 1080i content; it depends on whether that person is more sensitive to judder and interlace artifacts of 1080i or the lower frame rate artifacts of 1080p24, an artifact such a set WILL add.

    I think what beats them all is a set that interpolates frames at 120, 240, or even 480 Hz. I've become so used to having really fluid motion from that that I am now irritated by watching a TV that only does 60 or 24 Hz. A lot of folks find this to have the opposite effect and are annoyed because it DOESN'T have fewer frames like film does, which is probably just a life-long conditioning issue that can be unlearned fairly quickly.

    Bottom line? Don't worry that you might be missing something if your 1080p GUI displays as 1080i, because you won't; you aren't. They are exactly the same. The economy. The housing crisis. World hunger. Two wars in the middle east. Jerry Sandusky and Bernie Fine and their ilk. There's plenty of real stuff to get excited about. Your GUI shouldn't have to be one of them.
     
  17. samrs

    samrs MANC

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    Nice informative post.

    Bottom line, Plus One.
     
  18. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    You better start learning how to write a program to control video buffer inside of STB, what means overlay, etc. Your experience came from far away of it and you're totally messing up the terms and just shows misunderstanding of basics thing when it come to FW of STB. :down:
     
  19. hilmar2k

    hilmar2k Hall Of Fame

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    If the guide was always in 1080p, imagine the delay in bringing it up when the reciever and TV had to change resolutions if the source programming being watched was something other than 1080p. Just look at how long channel changing takes when in Native.
     
  20. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    The guide picture build in separate buffer (RAM) with a size corresponding to output resolution (could be other solution, but I don't have Program Manual for latest BCM7400 chips, - utilize scaling the same buffer [1088x1920] to current output buffer size), then all the planes (could be four or more - TV is deepest, at top is mouse cursor if it need) combined before output circuit [HDMI, component, etc] - that's why you see banners, EPG on TV screen while your recording are free of these overlays.

    There is no "p" or "i" - these variants come after the overlays executes, so - NO, no changes in a speed related to EPG/system overlays size, it is apparatus, nor SW job.
     

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