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New Vip612 Problem with HDCP and HDMI

Discussion in 'ViP612/622/722/722K DVR Support Forum' started by Rogernet, Aug 2, 2009.

  1. Jul 9, 2010 #61 of 101
    Rogernet

    Rogernet Mentor

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    Aug 2, 2009
    Thanks to those of you who have indicated a possible fix with version L609 to the HDCP Error message 890 problem I reported here almost a year ago on 7-29-09. It's been a few days since I checked to see if there had been any changes on my SONY HDTVs until late last night.....7-08-10

    Wow, for the first time in a year, I can report that I now can order/view PPVs and VODs via my HDMI cable on my primary SONY Bravia HDTV with the
    L609 Software which must have been downloaded over the past few days.....

    For those still having problems with their VIP612 receiver and this HCDP problem on their HDTV, confirm your current version with the Menu...6-1-3 option to get your version number on the System Info Screen.....then select
    NEXT....and check that both Your Digital Connection and HDCP options now both say "YES". If so, you should be able to order/view movies with HDMI with no HDCP error message 890. If not, check to see if you have an RGB hookup to a second HDTV or plugged into the VIP612 with nothing on the other end. I will contact my inside tech source and let him know about the
    report some problems surrounding L609 and this problem.

    I noticed that, despite the fact I now can get past this problem on my primary SONY HDTV, I still get this HDCP error message on my secondary bedroom SONY HDTV which uses the RGB hookup not HDMI. I will do some additional testing today, and unplug the RGB hookup to that HDTV and change to HDMI to see if that fixes it...but then I would lose HDMI on my primary HDTV.

    Since there is only 1 HDMI output from the VIP612, does anyone know if there
    is an HDMI splitter available so I can split the signal on separate cables to both of my HDTVs, and order PPVs on either?

    On the bright side, I am estimating I saved around $1200 by refusing to order
    any PPVs or VODs while this problem was in work this past year. I learned that maybe I just don't need to see that much TV anyway....there were a lot of books and activities I enjoyed more......My thanks to all of you that have kept the pressure on DISH to get this fixed on the VIP612s.
     
  2. Jul 9, 2010 #62 of 101
    SaltiDawg

    SaltiDawg Active Member

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    Aug 30, 2004
    Get Netflix and watch their Instant movies thru your Xbox, Wii, PS3, or PC.
     
  3. Jul 9, 2010 #63 of 101
    Rogernet

    Rogernet Mentor

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    Aug 2, 2009
    I did some research on HDMI splitters to answer my own question above....and found mixed results. Some had good results with the cheaper passive splitters to convert the single VIP612 HDMI out into two HDMI signals or the slightly more expensive powered splitters which seem to have better results.....I don't need an HDMI switch, just the splitter, since I would never run both HDTVs at the same time due to their close proximity. I'd appreciate any other opinions from those who have used HDMI splitters successfully.

    Right now I am inclined to get the $25 SEWELL HDMI 1x2 Splitter v1.3 (up to 1440p) which is powered.....ref: http://sewelldirect.com. Anybody with
    experience on this model?

    BTW...SaltiDawg. Thanks for your Netflix suggestion. During the DISH HDCP movie drought this past year....free HULU movies and TV was just fine on our large 25" HP Pavilion HDMI desktop monitors....We didn't need to see the most current movies that quickly...and waited until HBO or STARZ or ENCORE picked them up.
     
  4. Jul 10, 2010 #64 of 101
    Grandude

    Grandude RichardParker II

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    I have successfully used a similar splitter from Monoprice and have no problems with it. I did try to use two of them to split the HDMI to three destinations but that always failed. It was advertised to work that way but didn't. A 1x4 splitter was out of the question as the second split was at the end of a 30ft HDMI cable. I don't want to buy and run another 30ft cable but that would probably fix my problem.
     
  5. Jul 15, 2010 #65 of 101
    warrrreagl

    warrrreagl New Member

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    Jul 14, 2010
    It's great to find this forum. I joined DISH for the first time last week, and attempted to hook up my new Pioneer surround-sound receiver this afternoon when I started getting the picture reset issue discussed in this thread. I have a Panasonic Viera plasma TV, and a model 612 DISH receiver.

    When I hooked up the DISH straight to the TV, everything was perfect. When I hooked up the DISH receiver to the Pioneer receiver and tried to watch TV, the picture reset every few seconds. However, when I navigated to the setup screen for the Pioneer or tried to watch a DVD (bypassing the DISH receiver), the picture and sound were perfect.

    I called the Pioneer tech support line, and the guy told me that the Pioneer receiver was not getting the HDCP protocol from the DISH receiver, and it would require either a firmware update or swap out the DISH receiver.

    I called our local DISH installer, and he said the exact same thing. He told me that the glitch with the 612 was a well-known glitch, and DISH should allow me to swap out for a different receiver if I called the 800 number to officially schedule his tech visit.

    However, when I called DISH, the lady told me they had no record of any such glitch or firmware updates for the model 612, and clearly the problem was in our Pioneer receiver. She said she could schedule the tech visit for free from our local installer, but if I changed receivers (I've only been a customer for one week now), then it would cost me $200. Is that accurate? That doesn't sound right if the receiver they picked for me isn't compatible with my setup.

    Is it the DISH receiver or the TV itself giving me the problems?

    What should I say to the DISH installer when he comes out on Friday afternoon?
     
  6. Jul 16, 2010 #66 of 101
    warrrreagl

    warrrreagl New Member

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    Jul 14, 2010
    The problem is solved. The DISH installer came out this afternoon and we tried several scenarios. First, he took the 722 Dual Receiver out of one room and tried it where the 612 was, and the 722 worked perfectly with the Pioneer home theater receiver. No screen pops and resets. So, we knew the 722 worked with my setup. Next, he took the other 612 from a different room and tried it with the Pioneer, and we were back to the same screen pops and resets. So, all of that proved that my receiver wasn't bad, and that the 722 Dual would work. Since the 722 I already have has a pre-wired home run connection to another bedroom for the secondary TV, I couldn't just swap out the recievers with each other. It appeared that my only option was to upgrade to a new 722 in that room, which would cost $215 (unless I wanted to buy another home theater receiver, which I DEFINITELY did not want to do).

    That's when my DISH installer got creative. He said he had some RCA high-end A/V cables in his truck, and he wanted to see what happened when we used them to connect the Pioneer to the 612. His thinking was the Pioneer was already connected to the TV with HDMI, so there was no reason to have an additional HDMI jumper from the Pioneer to the 612 when RCA cables would do the trick. And it worked perfectly!

    I am back to surround sound, home theater, whole-house audio with all my original equipment. Thank you, DISH installer...
     
  7. Jul 26, 2010 #67 of 101
    Rogernet

    Rogernet Mentor

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    Aug 2, 2009
    It's been a few weeks....Here is what I discovered on the HDCP L609 fix:

    1. I spoke to my technical inside contact at DISH on July 20th. He said
    he would contact Engineering to determine why a second SONY HDTV
    hooked to the VIP612 via RGB would still have the HDCP 890 error
    message, when the primary SONY HDTV via HDMI does not. He
    will contact me as soon as he hears back from them. He feels you
    should be able to order PPVs or VODs via HDMI or RGB on either HDTV.

    2. HDMI Splitters: I did install the Sewell 1x2 powered splitter but
    had no success with it trying to split the HDMI signal from the 612 to
    both SONY HDTVs. I could not get signal out of the box to either HDTV.
    I sent it back and they bench tested it and it did ok with other HDMI
    devices.....Their engineer had heard of other problems with DISH receivers
    which tried to split signals passive or powered. We think that somehow
    the VIP612 is smart enough to sense other non-standard devices and
    will cut off all signal going out via the HDMI output They are good folks
    and will credit my splitter purchase.

    It would be interesting if anyone else has had problems using splitters
    with Vip612s and two or more HDTVs.
     
  8. Jul 31, 2010 #68 of 101
    ANGEL64644

    ANGEL64644 New Member

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    Jul 31, 2010
    I have just finished my 3rd phone call to dish this morning. Thank you all for your info. When I called them I had info they were not counting on. I gave specifics on systems info and that HDCP was not on and that I knew that a fix had been applied to some customers and not others. The barely English speaking person informed me that no fix had been downloaded (which of course we know different) and that they are still working on it. This was after the two previous conversations telling us that our 1 month old TV was not compatabile.
    Again thanks for the info, at least I felt better having info to give them.:)
     
  9. Aug 2, 2010 #69 of 101
    taurus6

    taurus6 New Member

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    Aug 2, 2010
    Hi guys, I'm new to forum and have to say that the customer service people at Dish Network are horrible. I too have a Sony KDL40VL*** and get the 890 error with the VIP612 (L609). When I viewed the Menu/6/1/3/Next screen, it said there was a Digital Connection but HDCP was NO.

    After speaking to a tech support guy at Sony, he suggested resetting the TV to factory default settings. I asked him if there were any user options to disable or change the HDCP settings on the TV and he said there was not. Anyway, since the Dish idiots were not helping the situation, I gave it a try. (insert magic word here) and the 612 says HDCP = YES.

    This may help some of you guys even though logically resetting something that a user cannot change seems pointless. Good luck.
     
  10. Aug 2, 2010 #70 of 101
    SaltiDawg

    SaltiDawg Active Member

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    Aug 30, 2004
    So, resetting your TV to the default conditions corrects the problem and yet you feal the need to call the Dish Techs "idiots?" lol :rolleyes:
     
  11. Aug 2, 2010 #71 of 101
    taurus6

    taurus6 New Member

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    Aug 2, 2010
    Well I guess if there is no way for a user to change a setting, then there would be no reason to reset a setting that cannot be changed. So if that logic makes me an idiot then I suppose I am one.

    Anyway, I did not actually order the PPV after getting the 612 to recognize that the Sony was HDCP since I could not watch it this morning. The bad news is that when I tried to actually order the PPV tonight, it still fails with the 890 error. Now, I'm an idiot that is really pissed. On one hand the receiver says HDCP = Yes, on the other it says I can't order PPV because the TV is not HDCP compliant. Go figure that crap.

    Dish Network wants $200 to upgrade to the 722. They don't care if i leave after 1 month of service and that they will not make any profit from me. I suppose they are happy with the imaginary $400 they "believe" they will collect from me for cancelling.

    Fortunately, I used a local company direct for the install and sale. According to him, Dish will back charge him $1000 if I cancel. He said he will eat the cost for the 722 if that will work to save the cancellation fee. Can anyone confirm that the 722 will work when the 612 would not. Thanks.
     
  12. Aug 3, 2010 #72 of 101
    Rogernet

    Rogernet Mentor

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    Aug 2, 2009
    Sorry guys....I've been out this past week and found it interesting that at least one of you was able to avoid the dreaded HDCP 890 message to disappear with a change to factory default settings from Sony. I tried this last year with no results. Sony even sent me a firmare finger drive update for my SONY KDL52W4100 HDTV. Didn't solve the HDCP problem. I am absolutely convinced that this is a 100% DISH HDCP/HDTV problem based on my personal experience and what my inside DISH Tech told me earlier this year. Sony has nothing to do with this....it's a Vip612 problem....although there have been reports of it on VIp211ks and Vip622s. The problem is that DISH does not have a large enough HDTV test bed to try all their firmare fixes on specific models, Sony or otherwise.

    My theory is that DISH and SONY (and a few other HDTV manufacturers) are using different or incompatible versions of the HDCP protocol and handshaking is not complete so that the VIP612 thinks it's dealing with a non-HDCP device.... and that L608 and L609 and ..... is work in progress bandaid fix as complaints come in and they have time to work.

    They also haven't enough engineers to test combinations on the Vip612 for both HDMI and RGB for the L609 firmware fix. Their priority now are the newer receivers and bugs....722...9xx. I still get the HDCP 890 message on my bedroom Sony KDL40W4100 Bravia HDTV which is hooked up via RGB.

    Try to unplug any devices on the RGB out of your Vip612 to see if the HDCP error message goes away on your primary SONY HDTV. See if that helps.

    I plan to contact my DISH Tech insider later this week. I will have him review your notes on this DBS string to see if he and the Dish Engineers have
    any other recommendations or status. I'll let you know.
     
  13. Aug 4, 2010 #73 of 101
    taurus6

    taurus6 New Member

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    Aug 2, 2010
    Ok, the plot thickens. According to Dish, my 612 must be connected to the Sony TV with component cables to avoid the 890 error. Although I will not keep the service if this is the only way I can watch PPVs, I wanted to give it a try. Yes, I can now order PPVs but I get a new error saying that my TV does not support the HD format (1080p), but I can order it in a resolution that matches my TV. What a piece of crap receiver. I will not watch 1080p movies in 1080i on my 1080p TV. The other great part is that Dish is billing me for a PPV that failed to let me order when connected via HDMI. I'll probably have to fight for a credit for that too.

    The installing company is going to swap me with a 722 at no charge. They wanted me to try these other options so they could keep track of what may or may not work. I'll update when I get the 722 to let you guys know if it works.

    I cannot believe that the only people having this issue are the few here on this forum. Dish should truly have a class-action suit filed against them. Especially for those people they forced to pay a cancellation fee when they realized that Dish cannot provide the services they advertise and switched to another provider.
     
  14. Aug 4, 2010 #74 of 101
    SaltiDawg

    SaltiDawg Active Member

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    Aug 30, 2004
    In this situation it is not the TV nor the receiver that is lacking. It is your understanding of the formats that can be viewed with Component cables that is lacking. :rolleyes:

    PS I think you'd be hard pressed to see a difference between 1080i and 1080p input to your 1080p. (I have a 1080p Sony Kuro plasma and I can not detect the difference.) Of course, YMMV.
     
  15. Aug 5, 2010 #75 of 101
    taurus6

    taurus6 New Member

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    Aug 2, 2010
    Hey Salti,

    Well, trying the component cables was just out of curiosity. I was not going to be happy with them because I'm upgrading to a new Onkyo receiver that supports HDMI switching and 1080p upconverting so I need the HDMI. It's also sad that Dish wants me to compromise on the services I get from them and have such horrible attitudes towards their customers. I've spoken with 3-4 of them for a total of 3 hours on the phone and none of them were really concerned with customer satisfaction. They all had negative attitudes, insisted that my hardware is the cause of the problem, would not even consider letting me try a 722 without a $200 fee, and saying that maybe I should just not order PPVs.

    Anyway, for technical purposes, my installer swapped the 612 out for the 722 today and guess what? Everything works as expected so far. PPVs order properly without error (and in 1080p where appropriate). There definitely is something wrong with the 622 hardware/firmware or I just had another bad 622. Oh yeah, forgot to mention the first 2 put in were bad on the first day.
     
  16. Aug 16, 2010 #76 of 101
    Rogernet

    Rogernet Mentor

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    Aug 2, 2009
    Hi Guys,

    Here's an update from my inside contact at Dish Technical Support. Last week, their Engineering Department tried to reproduce my problem with the secondary Sony via RGB still getting the 890 HDCP message while my primary SONY via HDMI was not getting it and allows me to order PPV and VODs. I just checked again....both
    HDTVs show: Digital Connection: Yes and HDCP: Yes, when you show the Menu 6-1-3 status second screen,
    but still the 890 message on the secondary Sony Bravia when I try to order a PPV off of it.

    They could not reproduce the problem, but my contact will try to do it himself and will ask them to do it again. I should have the results back by this Thursday, 8/19 and will let you know.

    As to the dialog since my last status, I'm sorry for all the problems Taurus6 has had, having gone through this process myself for over a year....the vip612 is probably a poor choice for a first receiver nowadays. I do have agree with Saltidawg, that both Dish and Dirrect as well do not yet have widespread 1080p resolution available, although Dish will occasionally have it on selected movies. The 1080i interlaced is an easier and cheaper technology for them than the progressive scan 1080p. I'm not sure any human eye could discern 1080i vs 1080p. I do see (and hear) the difference between HDMI and RGB however. I think both DISH and Dirrect will need to step up to 1080p or higher resolutions when the demand for 3D movies HDTVs that can show them becomes affordable to most....The cost to deliver will be high for a while, just like at the neighborhood theaters.....
     
  17. Aug 20, 2010 #77 of 101
    ducks4

    ducks4 New Member

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    Aug 20, 2010
    As a newbie to this thread (and dbstalk), I think you guys have done a fine job in pinning the HDCP problem on Dish.

    I have a 622/Sony TV with the problem. Because I have a DVD player to use in this system and there's only one HDMI port on the TV, I will need a component video connection somewhere. I'd rather that be the DVD player but in truth my eyes don't see that much difference in picture quality so I can accept the compromise.

    I do believe the firmare update on my 622 is L627 - which doesn't seem right based on what I've read here (it still shows HDCP = NO) - any thoughts? And, an aside, is actual "Component Video Cable" going to make any real difference from the reasonably high grade audio/composite video cables I used to test things with?
     
  18. Aug 21, 2010 #78 of 101
    Rogernet

    Rogernet Mentor

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    Aug 2, 2009
    The answer is yes to Ducks4.....We have had reports of the HDCP problem on DISH 622s and 211s receivers with Sony and other HDTVs if you review this thread from the beginning. We have been focused on my VIP612 since I started this string over a year ago....which started with firmware version L603....and is now at least partially fixed with L609. The VIP622 and 211s will also eventually have the "HDCP fix" applied to it....I will try to confirm with my inside contact if he knows when (maybe L628 or L629)......I was unable to reach him this week on some of his test progress on my issues.

    BTW...each DISH receiver has its own unique set of firmware upgrade numbers....that's why you see so many different number sets. Your VIP622 L627 does not have the HDCP fix yet.

    Until then, if you want to order PPVs or VODs, you will need to use your RGB
    cables between your 622 and one of your Sony HDTV or DVD input ports. The other option is a VIP722
    swap out....which thus far has not had the HDCP problems...but it will cost you more from what I've heard.

    Important...you will need to unplug your HDMI cable from the 622 when you do this or you will get the HDCP message again. I was able to do this with my 612, but did not want to settle for RGB quality. This should work for your
    622. Hope this helps.
     
  19. Aug 21, 2010 #79 of 101
    MNipper

    MNipper Mentor

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    Re: the 622, and L629. "No joy" yet. I, too, have been following this thread since early on, as someone with a 622/Sony setup, and the first thing that I do with each no release (as with 629, several weeks back) is check to see if they've finally resolved their HDCP handshaking problems.

    If someone does find out something about a future release, where this will be resolved on the 622, I hope that they will post that here.
     
  20. Aug 21, 2010 #80 of 101
    ducks4

    ducks4 New Member

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    Aug 20, 2010
    Thanks for the reply, Rogernet.

    I was wrong with the version (or it was updated in the last few days) - my 622has L629. Alas, no HDCP fix.

    I have both connections in place - Comp Video (TV Video input 4) and HDMI (Video input 6). For whatever reason, PPV movies show up no problem using Vid 4 and I still get the 890 message switching to Vid 6. PPV is fine when cycling back to Vid 4. FWIW, I purchased the movie on-line using a coupon, not via phone.

    HDMI continues to work for other programming, so I suppose I can use the Component Video only for PPV and HDMI for other Dish programming.

    Let's see now - one set of comp vid cables for PPV, another set of comp vid cables for my DVD player, the HDMI cable and the wireless network port extender with its power and ethernet cables. My wife's going to go nuts with all these cables. Maybe it's time to look again at DirectTV and whole house DVR - they've really simplified cabling with the DECA technology.
     

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