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Obesity Is A Disease

Discussion in 'The OT' started by Drucifer, Jun 18, 2013.

  1. Jun 23, 2013 #61 of 114
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I don't see the purpose in refusing to call it a disease ... although I understand that some people see getting a disease as something excusable I see disease as something with a treatment and possibly a cure. As phrelin pointed out ... some diseases are caught through poor choices. Some are with the person all along and are not discovered until symptoms are displayed or perhaps they are triggered by some other chemical in the body.

    I don't consider a disease an excuse. If someone dies of liver cancer and they were a heavy drinker they are not excused. If someone dies of lung cancer and they were a heavy smoker they are not excused. Perhaps others on this forum excuse those who make poor choices that lead to their deaths if some disease is involved. I don't.

    I am ticked that my relative died of obesity 23 years ago. I wish that she would have sought treatment and lived a much longer life. But way back then obesity was not treated the same way as it is now. Now that it is a disease I hope doctors and patents take it much more seriously and seek professional help. (And if anyone wants to make jokes about her death I hope they seek professional help.)

    Perhaps those afraid to recognize diseases for what they are (diseases) see a disease as a handicap that one can live with and exploit for special privileges and pity instead of a challenge to be fought against with the battle being won. The real courage comes from facing down a disease and doing all you can to win ... not letting the disease control you.

    When you see disease as something to be beaten you're less afraid of something being called a disease.
     
  2. Jun 23, 2013 #62 of 114
    MysteryMan

    MysteryMan Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    Obesity is "mainly" the result of overeating and excess consumption of sweet and processed foods accompanied by the "lack" of "adequate" physical activity......Malfunctioning of endocrine glands is "rarely" a cause of obesity......"Sometimes" inadequate secretion of thyroid gland brings down the metabolism of fat and develops obesity......Cushing's syndrome can also "sometimes" cause obesity in middle aged women......Less secretion of testicular hormones can also cause obesity......"Lack" of physical exertion play a "crucial" role in developing obesity......Bottom line, the "main" cause for obesity is people stuffing their faces and not getting off their butts. But if we tell them that their feelings will get hurt. So instead we wipe their nose and powder their hiny and tell them they have a disease. :sure:
     
  3. Jun 23, 2013 #63 of 114
    djlong

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    This topic was raised on Bill Maher's show Friday night. There, they pointed out some of the "behind the scenes" factors that may have played into this recommendation. In no particular order:

    1) By calling it a "disease", doctors can now "have the discussion" with their patients about their obesity and be allowed to bill for that time.

    2) By calling it a disease, pharmaceutical companies and others stand to make increased profits from such a diagnosis. This opens the door to more pills, more lap-band surgery, etc.

    3) It will be used as an excuse to avoid healthier lifestyle changes.

    4) Doctors will finally be allowed to call their patients fat without fear of a lawsuit.

    Someone earlier mentioned people who subscribe to the "alcoholism is a disease" mindset and use that to help them stay sober. I'd be genuinely interested in the ratio of those kinds of people (more power to them) versus those who use it as an excuse.
     
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  4. Jun 23, 2013 #64 of 114
    MysteryMan

    MysteryMan Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    Sounds right to me. The bitter truth is better than a sweet lie!
     
  5. Jun 23, 2013 #65 of 114
    sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    Ponder this... HIV is "mainly" caused by people choosing to have unprotected sex. They're making a choice just as alcoholics, drug addicts, & obese people are doing. So should HIV not be a disease?
     
  6. Jun 23, 2013 #66 of 114
    MysteryMan

    MysteryMan Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    HIV is a "virus" that can be contracted through sexual contact, intravenous needles, blood transfusions, or Mother to baby. Obesity cannot be transmitted like the HIV virus. You can have unprotected sex with a obese person but their obesity won't be transmitted to you. The same applies with intravenous needles, blood transfusions, and Mother to baby when it comes to obesity.
     
  7. Jun 23, 2013 #67 of 114
    sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    But unprotected sex, having a baby while positive, and sharing needles is a choice... exactly like drinking and eating.
     
  8. Jun 23, 2013 #68 of 114
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    So, is that a complete list of how to get a disease? No genetics? No hereditary path? :rolleyes:
    (Not all diseases are transmitted in the same way.)

    disease /dis·ease/ (dĭ-zēz´) any deviation from or interruption of the normal structure or function of any body part, organ, or system that is manifested by a characteristic set of symptoms and signs and whose etiology, pathology, and prognosis may be known or unknown.
     
  9. Jun 23, 2013 #69 of 114
    MysteryMan

    MysteryMan Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    Sugar coat it all you want. Obesity, like alcoholism and drug addiction are "self inflicted conditions". Calling them a disease is like saying "It's not your fault you "chose" to pour the booze down your throat. You have a disease". "It's not your fault you "chose" to pump drugs in your arm. You have a disease". It's not your fault you "chose" to stuff your face and not get off your butt. You have a disease". You want to be a bleeding heart that's your choice. I don't blame people for making mistakes but I do expect them to take responsibility for them. :rolleyes:
     
  10. Jun 23, 2013 #70 of 114
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    You're not reading my posts ... you're just posting the same shoot from the hip response to the disease label. I have already addressed your complaint in my posts. If you're not going to read my posts please don't respond to them.
     
  11. Jun 23, 2013 #71 of 114
    houskamp

    houskamp New Member

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    well storing fat is a natural function of the body..
     
  12. Jun 23, 2013 #72 of 114
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Only within certain parameters. Disease is complicated.
     
  13. Jun 23, 2013 #73 of 114
    sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    So is HIV for the most part. You keep saying addictions are self inflected, yet deny HIV is also. Of course there's exceptions, like receiving unsafe blood or a mother passing it on.

    Many studies confirm addiction being a disease. Addiction is due 50 percent to genetic predisposition and 50 percent to poor coping skills. This has been confirmed by numerous studies. One study looked at 861 identical twin pairs and 653 fraternal (non-identical) twin pairs. When one identical twin was addicted to alcohol, the other twin had a high probability of being addicted. But when one non-identical twin was addicted to alcohol, the other twin did not necessarily have an addiction. Based on the differences between the identical and non-identical twins, the study showed 50-60% of addiction is due to genetic factors. Those numbers have been confirmed by other studies.

    Consider heart disease, the leading cause of death in the developed world. It's partly due to genes and partly due to poor life style choices such as bad diet, lack of exercise, and smoking. The same is true for other common diseases like adult-onset diabetes. Many forms of cancers are due to a combination of genes and life style. But if your doctor said that you had diabetes or heart disease, you wouldn't think you were bad person.

    Sources:

    DSM stands for The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, published by the American Psychiatric Association. ICD stands for The International Classification of Disease, published by the World Health Organization.

    Mokdad AH, Marks JS, Stroup DF, Gerberding JL. Actual causes of death in the United States, 2000. Journal American Medical Association. 2004 Mar 10;291(10):1238-45.

    http://www.addictionsandrecovery.org/is-addiction-a-disease.htm
     
  14. Jun 23, 2013 #74 of 114
    Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I think I sort-of mentioned HIV earlier... in passing anyway.

    Having unprotected sex is a choice... it is a risky choice depending on your partner... so yes, I agree you bear some responsibility in how you contract the disease IF you get it through unprotected sex... BUT HIV and whatever it causes, still is a disease.

    So we're talking apples and oranges a little bit here.

    I'm saying obesity itself is not a disease... but rather obesity is part and parcel of "risky behavior" like driving without a seatbelt, biking without a helmet, cliff diving, being a stuntman, whatever... and you mostly choose to engage in that behavior... so that IF something happens to you, be it another disease or injury as a result of your "risky behavior" you have to take that personal responsibility yourself.

    Being obese can and often does lead to other diseases.... in which case those diseases are something you need treatment for... and I wouldn't beat you over the head about it, but you might have avoided those diseases by not being obese.

    Now... something like HIV... is a disease that you might get as a result of "risky behavior"... and again, I wouldn't condemn you for it... but it is something you might have avoided contracting IF you were more careful and practiced better healthy activities.

    So... HIV = disease... but sex is not a disease... unprotected sex is not a disease either... but if you do it enough, you might get HIV, an actual disease.

    Similarly... obesity is NOT a disease... it is a risky "activity" that if you engage in it long enough, you might cause yourself to be vulnerable to an actual disease.

    That is how I see it.
     
  15. Jun 23, 2013 #75 of 114
    sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    You don't engage in obesity, you engine in eating too much without burning the calories. Obesity is a condition you end up in.

    IMO, obesity isn't a disease, but the addiction to over eating is the disease.
     
  16. Jun 23, 2013 #76 of 114
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    HIV is a virus.
    'HIV weakens your immune system by destroying important cells that fight disease and infection. A "deficient" immune system can't protect you.'

    HIV can lead to AIDS ... which is a syndrome.
    'A syndrome is a collection of symptoms and signs of disease. AIDS is a syndrome, rather than a single disease, because it is a complex illness with a wide range of complications and symptoms.'

    'Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome is the final stage of HIV infection. People at this stage of HIV disease have badly damaged immune systems, which put them at risk for opportunistic infections (OIs).'
    source

    HIV and AIDS weaken a person's immune system which leads to the person not being able to fight off diseases. If one were to argue with the same strict standards some in this thread are applying to alcoholism and obesity one could come to the conclusion that HIV and AIDS are not diseases. But I suppose people are more comfortable telling alcoholics and obese people that their problem is not a disease than telling an HIV positive person that they don't have a disease. At least today.

    As time goes by more people will accept the disease theory of alcoholism ... as well as the disease theory of obesity.
     
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  17. Jun 23, 2013 #77 of 114
    sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    So, piggybacking on James' post about AIDS... Do you consider AIDS a disease? Surely not, right, since the S in AIDS stands for Syndrome?
     
  18. Jun 23, 2013 #78 of 114
    Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    If one were fat, or an alcoholic, it might be a good thing to not think of ones' self as bad; that doesn't help anyone. Rather, if one has a disease, it's easier to grasp that treatment or cures are available.

    This statement is not meant to condone becoming a victim, or to use a disease concept as an excuse for other poor habits or behavior.
     
  19. Jun 24, 2013 #79 of 114
    MysteryMan

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    Oh, but I am reading your posts. I'm just not buying into what you're selling! :rolleyes:
     
  20. Jun 24, 2013 #80 of 114
    djlong

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    AIDS is a Syndrome - the compromised immune system that allows a whole host of microbiological horrors to have free reign over the body. HIV is a virus - right there in the name. The Human Immunodeficiency Virus. In my boxes of old Discover magazines, somewhere, there's even a picture of the virus itself. It's like when I have a cough. I don't consider the cough a disease - the flu virus in my body would be causing the cough - I have "the flu", not "the cough".

    The difference between AIDS/HIV and obesity, concerning "risky behavior", is that you can't catch obesity from risky behavior with a fat person. You CAN catch Influenza, Hepatitis, Mononucleosis, Conjunctivits, SARS and a dictionary full of other diseases from risky behavior.

    Like I said - "show me the pathogen".

    I'm also sympathetic to the "genetics contribute towards addictive behavior" - but it's still not a disease. Genetics are the reason that I'm deathly allergic to penicillin. Because of that, I avoid penicillin at all costs. Now, it's because I have such a strong incentive to stay away from penicillin that I've been very successful at it. The thought of dying is a powerful motivator. But I'd be dying quickly with a very clear and immediate cause/effect situation. Alcoholism and obesity are slow killers so the same motivation isn't there.
     
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