1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Welcome to the new DBSTalk community platform. We have recently migrated to a community platform called Xenfono and hope you will find this change to your liking. There are some differences, but for the most part, if you just post and read, that will all be the same. If you have questions, please post them in the Forum Support area. Thanks!

Official Statement from Dish Network concerning VOIP service

Discussion in 'General DISH™ Discussion' started by Mark Lamutt, Feb 22, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Mark Lamutt

    Mark Lamutt Your Neighborhood Liasion

    12,527
    1
    Mar 23, 2002
    I specifically asked today for an official statement from Dish concerning the use of VOIP service as a phone line to your Dish Network receivers.

    The official word is this:

    As they stated on the Tech Forum, DISH Network receivers do not support a direct connection to VOIP, LAN's or cell phones. A dial tone from a land line must be connected in order to receive VOD, some ITV games or shopping services, or pay per view programming. Some customers may be able to connect the receiver to an adapter on a VOIP system which provides dial tone and successfully participate in the interactive TV and shopping services, but these types of connections are known to be very unreliable and inconsistent for Caller ID. Since DISH Network has no control over such services, we cannot provide technical support in troubleshooting problems with them.

    There you have it.
     
  2. Bill R

    Bill R Hall Of Fame

    2,498
    0
    Dec 20, 2002
    Thanks Mark.

    VOIP is not the "be all and end all" that cable companies make it out to be. Its lack of "backward compatability" is making it a real target for the local phone company's ads. I was watching the local news tonight and right after the ad for Time Warner's VOIP service saying how great it was, there was an ad from our local phone company saying how bad VOIP is. Great scheduling by the station's traffic department. I bet they get a nasty call from Time Warner tomorrow.
     
  3. Cyclone

    Cyclone Hall Of Fame/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

    2,425
    0
    Jul 1, 2002
    Those ads will only last so long. Once the ILECs get their own VoIP systems up and running, it will be all that they sell in those markets serviced.

    Of course, by then they'll also be using Triple Play (Voice/Video/Data) bundling deals to get you off of DBS. Why need a dial tone line for your dbs box, when our Video service is right here?
     
  4. gpflepsen

    gpflepsen Guest

    How about an official statement on why the 921, 721 (and perhaps others) receivers don't work with a phone service with DSL service? My 301 and 6000 and sometimes the 811 all worked OK and provided the Caller ID feature. But the 721 and 921 don't.
     
  5. Bill R

    Bill R Hall Of Fame

    2,498
    0
    Dec 20, 2002
    I have two DISH receivers (one is a 721) connected to my DSL line. I don't have any problem at all. Do you have the DSL filters (or a whole house filter) on the lines connected to your receivers?
     
  6. Bill R

    Bill R Hall Of Fame

    2,498
    0
    Dec 20, 2002
    As far your statement that "it will be all they sell" that is many, many years away (if at all). There are just to many weaknesses is the current design of VoIP service (power outages, reliability, and internet insecurity being the main ones) for VoIP to catch on with the masses.
     
  7. gpflepsen

    gpflepsen Guest

    I have the filters.

    I had the 301, 6000 and 811 connected to the same phone lines and they worked. I shipped them out, replacing them with the 921 and 721. I actually had the 811 and 721 connected at the same time. CID worked on the 811, but not the 721. It never has worked on the 921.

    Interest has waned and I don't feel like troubleshooting the receivers anymore. Every other piece of equipment w/ CID in the house works.
     
  8. michaelL

    michaelL Mentor

    30
    0
    Nov 30, 2004
    I am confused.

    I have Vonage (a VOIP service) and I have a dial tone.

    I have my 921 connected to my Vonage VOIP line and CallerID works well. I have not bought any PPV movies, so I do not know if that function will work over a VOIP line.

    Mike
     
  9. Bill R

    Bill R Hall Of Fame

    2,498
    0
    Dec 20, 2002
    Mike,

    All VoIP services that you can use with your regular home phones HAVE to have dial tone (that dial tone comes from the analog to IP box that the company installs in the home that takes the place of the telephone company's connection (at the NID) and connects to the VoIP providor's connection). The problem is when you make a "data call" over that line (which is exactly what the modems in the DBS receivers do). Some VoIP service work, MOST don't work reliably. Caller ID is a hit and miss issue with some VoIP providers. Time Warner had a BIG problem with it when they first came out with their VoIP but now they seem to have it working with most caller ID equipment (I don't know if it works with DISH receivers equipped with caller ID software).

    I do know that with the local VoIP vendor (Time Warner), VoIP service won't work for modem calls made from home alarm systems and satellite receivers.

    This is a BIG issue for receivers like the 522 because if the modem does not call in every so often you are charged an extra monthly fee for that receiver.
     
  10. Cyclone

    Cyclone Hall Of Fame/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

    2,425
    0
    Jul 1, 2002
    Well, I do agree that you'll be able to purchase POTS service for a long time. But I think that when VoIP is offered from the ILECs that it will be priced at a point where VoIP "will be all they sell" when it comes to voice. Ie the Customer will still have the choice, but will pick VoIP overwhelmingly.

    Power outages will be tempered by a battery backup installed in your Optical Network termination. It will likely support about 6 hours of time operation.

    2nd the ILECs will use a separate IP network for VoIP traffic and not the internet. That along with QoS implementations will lock down reliabiltiy and security. Your packets will likely only find their way in the internet if you call to a 3rd world country or a Internet only VoIP provider.
     
  11. Scott Greczkowski

    Scott Greczkowski Banned User

    6,968
    2
    Mar 21, 2002
    I have one of my receivers connected to a Vonage line and it works fine and also reports PPV orders.

    Guess it depends on your VOIP service and how much bandwidth it has when it tried making its call.
     
  12. gsel

    gsel Cool Member

    21
    0
    Jan 20, 2004
    Just like the cable companies, you will have a small backup time. I went through the outage here in Michigan a year and 1/2 ago, where we were without power for over a day. Cell phones and cable started dropping out in a few hours. My phone worked the whole time, my DSL worked, and my satellite worked. (I have a generator.) If I counted on cable and VOIP, where would I be? Cable took a long time to come back, as did the cell phone. Give me copper all the way from the telco office.
     
  13. Rovingbar

    Rovingbar Legend

    188
    0
    Jan 24, 2005
    We've been using a VoIP for about a month and have notied some issues with the 921. It seems that the 921 makes about 10 calls per night before it either connects or gives up. Reading this thread, it makes sense that there would be a problem because the max frequency is only 90 kbps.

    I remember many compatability issues when Caler ID first came out. Each region had its own system. It took many years to get all the bugs worked out. Actually there probably are still quite a few bugs with Caller ID. Anyway, I think that the current problems with VoIP are fairly minor. As more customers sign on, they will figure out how to deal with modem calls and other compatability issues. Its the way of technology: bleading edge, early adopters, early majorty, late majority... VoIP is still in early adopters, and the bugs don't really have to be eliminated until the majority phase.


    It may not be as reliable as traditional service, but it is reliable enough for us.

    So for serving the masses, I think the big issues are convenience and cost (ok reliability and compatability are probably #3 & #4). If VoIP is a pain to set-up an use, then people will stick with the traditional land lines, even at higher cost. I really don't think reliability is a major issue. Many folks are moving to cell phones in place of land lines. This demonstrates that people are more concerned with convenience than reliability. Besides, cell phones work just as well at home so why pay twice! They would rather put their $50 to extra minutes on their cell phone each month than to pay for basic phone service.

    BTW: My local phone service installed 'digitial phone' service about 5 years ago. While it is more direct than VoIP, I think it is the same principal. I've faced the 'no phone during power failure' issue with my old service. Oddly enough, at that time my cell phone still worked. :)

    Life is good,
    Jeff
     
  14. geoff

    geoff AllStar

    51
    0
    Jan 3, 2004
    I have been using Vonage VOIP service exclusively for a year and have had no problems with the alarm system or my 721 box, they connect first time, every time. I find I get higher connection speeds with my modem or fax on VOIP than I did with POTS (48kpbs vs 40Kbps) all for $14.95 a month, while local land line starts at $45/month with no bells and whistles and vonage has all the bells and whistles, I Don't want to sound like a vonage advertisement, but the truth hurts. Caller ID works flawlessly too.

    Geoff
     
  15. Scott Greczkowski

    Scott Greczkowski Banned User

    6,968
    2
    Mar 21, 2002
    I think the reason Dish may not want people using VOIP is because the fact the a person can have a phone number for anywhere in the country.

    For example, I have a Detroit Vonage number although I live in Hartford, Connecticut.

    This phone setup allows for "moving" much easier. :)
     
  16. gsel

    gsel Cool Member

    21
    0
    Jan 20, 2004
    You probably are partially correct, but if the VoIP vendors specify no faxes or alarm systems, then there must be something to the reliability of the data transfer, perhaps based on your IP vendor or other factors beyond their control. Those that work are lucky, and those that don't couldn't beat the odds. Therefore DISH is trying to eliminate a bunch of trouble calls for something beyong their control.
     
  17. Egil222

    Egil222 New Member

    2
    0
    Feb 24, 2005
    Vonage service works just fine with dish receivers if you know to put in a prefix code of *99. Just go into the receiver's menu then into the installation submenu and then the phone setup and check the little "use prefix" box and use 3 digits and then put in *99. Then all the stuff that uses the phone line works just fine.

    The reason that things like fax machines, alarm systems and dish receivers have problems with voip lines normally is that voip data is compressed when it is moving thru the internet and some QoS stuff falls below spec for some devices.

    Using *99 with vonage tells the vonage servers to shut off all compression on your line so things like dish receivers become perfectly happy using VOIP.

    Sheesh you'd think some of you guys would check things out before posting stuff about a service you haven't used and obviously haven't learned the tips and tricks you need to use it.
     
  18. kb7oeb

    kb7oeb Icon

    631
    0
    Jun 16, 2004
    As I understand it Dish doesn't look at caller ID they look at the ANI and I have read that Vonage ANI shows calls coming from a New York phone number.
     
  19. n0qcu

    n0qcu Legend/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

    1,256
    12
    Mar 23, 2002
    The problem with that is not all Dish receivers are able to have a * entered in the prefix. I know for fact that the 522 will not let you.
     
  20. geobernd

    geobernd Mentor

    46
    0
    Nov 4, 2004
    There are actually two different ANI formats.
    If they look at ANI (1) - the old format - they will see a random NY phone number - from the gateway that is used to cross to POTS.
    If they look at ANI2 they will see the correct number (at least for both of my Vonage lines).
    I don't know what they look at - I supsect it is ANI (1) as I have the same trouble calling the 800 number from my Vonage line... Once I became a customer I can override the phone number - but I couldn't call to sign up - the voice processing system refused to see that I am not an existing customer....
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page