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On-Demand way too slow to be usable.

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by Mike Greer, Feb 19, 2012.

  1. Mar 3, 2012 #101 of 178
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Seems like you are in fact agreeing, but the decreased PQ offered is "good enough" for you, which is a whole other point.
     
  2. Mar 3, 2012 #102 of 178
    raott

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    No, I am not agreeing at all. Simply, you stated the streaming services "lacked good PQ for HD". I stated I disagreed with that statement and that VUDU (a streaming service) not only has good PQ, but IMO great PQ.

    It has nothing to do with the PQ being "good enough" for me. It has to do with whether a streaming service can offer really good PQ, and VUDU can.

    Have you used VUDU?
     
  3. Mar 3, 2012 #103 of 178
    Rich

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    Yeah, even with my upscaling BD players doing their magic, the drop in PQ when streaming is very noticeable. Let me put it more succinctly: I think streaming content sucks. Using an upscaler to bring the 720p (if you can even get that) up to 1080/60p makes it tolerable, but it can't compare to the PQ of the On Demand content.

    I was quite surprised when I finally got around to checking out the OD content. I downloaded the first season of Spartacus and the picture was really good. I think it's been years since I downloaded any OD content and it really has improved.

    Rich
     
  4. Mar 3, 2012 #104 of 178
    Rich

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    Do they stream in 720p as NetFlix does?

    Rich
     
  5. Mar 3, 2012 #105 of 178
    veryoldschool

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    No I haven't, and it may be good :shrug:

    Let me quote what I was replying to earlier:
    As good a DirecTV looks like you said No.
    "Close enough" that you're happy/content with Vudu.

    This wasn't meant to become a pissing contest, but merely that streaming through the internet is of lower quality than downloading DirecTV On Demand.
    It wasn't to say that all streaming totally sucks.
     
  6. Mar 3, 2012 #106 of 178
    raott

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    There are two formats HD which is 720p and HDX which is 1080p24.

    I have never used HDX because the movies are a dollar more. The 720p via VUDU is head and shoulders above what Netflix delivers.

    Netflix, IMO, doesn't deliver a very good pic at all.
     
  7. Mar 3, 2012 #107 of 178
    veryoldschool

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    Might as well throw another wildcard into this thread:

    If you happen to like BBCA, you may like watching the shows through On Demand, instead of the SAT feed.
    The PQ seems to not have been reduced as the SAT feed is for SD, "and" you may find the program hasn't been edited to add the time for commercials that the SAT feed has been.
    I first noticed this with a couple of shows: Top Gear & The Hour.
     
  8. Mar 3, 2012 #108 of 178
    Rich

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    That 48 hour limit would bother me. I don't like having to keep schedules. Too
    much like homework.

    Rich
     
  9. Mar 3, 2012 #109 of 178
    Rich

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    I've been watching MI-5 and a few other shows on NetFlix DVDs. I'd forgotten how good a show MI-5 is/was.

    Rich
     
  10. Mar 3, 2012 #110 of 178
    Rich

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    I've never paid for any streaming content except NF's. I've got the big movie package and I don't have any intention of paying to see movies in any other way. I'm not sure I'd even keep NF if it was only for streaming content.

    I've tried the Apple box, tried an LG box (don't go there), sold all my Rokus, sold all my Panny BD players, all because Samsung's BD players upscale NF streaming content very well. In comparison to the boxes listed above.

    But, from what I've experienced with streaming, it's not the answer I thought it would be.

    Rich
     
  11. Mar 3, 2012 #111 of 178
    raott

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    I don't like it either. On the upside, it is 24 hours more than D*'s. Apparently they have better negotiators than D* does.
     
  12. Mar 4, 2012 #112 of 178
    Rich

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    I watched two shows on NF streaming last night and the PQ was pretty good. I must say I have let the problems I've been having with Sammy BD players and NF flavor my prior post. The shows I watched last night certainly didn't suck as far as PQ goes. My apologies.

    Rich
     
  13. Mar 4, 2012 #113 of 178
    Rich

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    Those "limits" are what drove me away from Video Stores years ago. I don't mind paying for things, but to set limits on them (especially intangible things like streaming video) seems a bit over the top to me.

    I looked at Amazon again on my new "smart" TV. The Sammy BD players don't have Amazon. Everything I looked at that interested me cost money. I could not find one thing that rewarded me for being a "Prime Shipping" member from the git-go of the program.

    Rich
     
  14. Mar 4, 2012 #114 of 178
    dualsub2006

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    The limits of D* OD are not acceptable to me. The time that it takes for a download to reach a watchable state is not my idea of "On Demand". Further, the selection sucks.

    If it were a picture quality only issue, D* would win, but it's more about "On Demand" for me.

    Netflix isn't perfect by any stretch, but the PQ on my Roku 2's exceeds every other device that I have that streams Netflix. Even my Roku 1.

    Is it perfect? Nope. But there comes a point when convenience begins to far outweigh PQ, and Netflix along with Amazon rentals are the route that I choose to take. The D* on demand and movie rentals are sub par.

    And as was the case when I tried to rent Moneyball from D*, there are times when it just doesn't work. The Amazon rental was cheaper, I didn't have to wait for the next showing to begin and the picture quality was far beyond good enough.

    D* has a long way to go. Until then I'll use Netflix, HBO Go, Amazon rentals and at times iTunes rentals.
     
  15. Mar 4, 2012 #115 of 178
    sdirv

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    I know I'm coming into this thread a bit late......and sometimes I have a different view than most here.....but.....

    I use D*'s VOD quite a bit, I've got 20mbps internet service with a good, clean wireless N system, my provider does not throttle me and find that with HD content I'm only "forced" to wait a few minutes before I've got enough of a program buffered to be able to begin watching without hitting the buffer.

    I also have found that the selection of programming "sucking" greatly depends on the programming you subscribe. I'm fortunate enough to subscribe to the Premier Package so I've found that the selection of D*'s programming on VOD has been quite good.

    I have no experience with the Roku equipment, I'd like to try one for use with HBO GO, but D* will not authenticate my subscription to HBO for use with a Roku device (another discussion).

    But.....I stream Netflix through a PS3 to a 65" DLP set with outstanding results. The HD content looks wonderful and most of the time the SD content looks better than D*'s SD content. I stream Netflix through a Wii to an older 36" CRT set. At first the PQ wasn't very good, but subsequent software updates have fixed most of that so that now the PQ is quite good. I stream Netflix through an Insignia Blu-Ray player to a 32" Insignia flat panel over my wireless network and the results there are once again outstanding.

    I don't have much luck streaming Netflix to my desktop PC, it's a P4 from 2003 and the stream is a bit "jerky". But, I don't have those issues when streaming to my newer Intel dual processor laptop, or even my Motorola Android phones.

    I agree with your comments about convenience....but not with your comments about D*'s VOD being sub par. I do NOT use D*'s PPV system at all, but I use their VOD (delivered via the internet) a lot and am very happy with the service, selection, and quality.

    I wish people wouldn't mix up these topics. D*'s PPV and their VOD service are not the same thing. Their VOD service is offered at no cost to customers who have DVR's, and those DVR's must have an internet connection to make use of the service. Content availability is based on the channels they subscribe. The PQ of content coming via this service is often better than what is down linked via their satellites, and depending on your internet service (sustainable speeds and possible ISP throttling) the time between program selection and ability to view without hitting the buffer can vary.

    I use all the services I get to compliment each other. Mostly I view D*'s programming in real time, I use their VOD service as well as Netflix streaming and DVD mail delivery. And YES...I have too much time on my hands.
     
  16. Mar 4, 2012 #116 of 178
    dualsub2006

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    I have 20/2 service and I have to wait at a minimum 20 minutes to start a program. More often than not, it's 30-40 minutes. I don't have any problems with any streaming or rental option that I use. Ever.
    I have Premier as well, and it sucks to me because the available episodes of programs are limited to the latest episodes for so many shows. Movies channels offer very little through on demand.

    I use Chrome on my Google TV from time to time. Vizio will have a $99 option available soon and I will finish outfitting my TV arsenal with those when they become available.

    I'm not mixing anything up. The few times I've browsed for a movie to watch, I've used the same browse feature of my DVR that I use for OD content. That, to me, makes them inseparable when discussing my perceived shortcomings with all things D* VOD.

    Delivery mechanism and extra charges are meaningless when neither offers an acceptable level of service for me.

    I'm not going to accept that as an excuse for D*. I can rent from Amazon, iTunes or Vudu and stream Netflix or Amazon without ANY buffering issues or delays. If my ISP were going to throttle they would start with one of these other services first.

    I use the OD as well, just not often. I queue things up to watch later. If it were a paid add on, I'd drop it in a heartbeat.
     
  17. Mar 4, 2012 #117 of 178
    raott

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    D*'s VOD and PPV overlap a great deal, so one can't help to mix the topics together. Much of the PPV choices are delivered via VOD.
     
  18. Mar 4, 2012 #118 of 178
    veryoldschool

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    On Demand isn't going to be for everyone, and it might better be called "On Request", since there is a wait factor.
    You may have a 20/2 service, but your wait times are closer to my 6/1 DSL service.
    I actually found a OnDemand from HBO that was coming so fast I was able to start watching within a few mins. I setup ten recordings of the show [believe it was Game of Thrones] and they finished at a 1:1 rate. I was quite surprised and checked the streaming bit-rate and found it was 6 Mb/s and had good PQ. This sure hasn't been the normal for me, as most HD takes 1:1.5, where for every min of program, it takes a min and a half to download.
    I'm waiting for my service to be upgraded to 12 Mb/s, and will then be able to see if DirecTV does limit their end to 7-8 Mb/s, which others have posted.
     
  19. Mar 4, 2012 #119 of 178
    sdirv

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    There is a BIG difference between the service you pay for and what you may actually receive. It's not unusual for ISPs to advertise max speeds when the reality is that the services often can't maintain those speeds.

    You telling me that you have to wait somewhere between 20 and 40 miutes before you can watch a selected program indicates a problem to me that I HIGHLY doubt is D*'s "fault". I've got 20mbps service from an ISP who does not throttle, I've read that the max transfer rate over the internet of D*'s content is between 6 and 9mbps. I've NEVER had to wait more than 5 minutes (usually less) before being able to watch HD programming without running up against the buffer.

    If I was having to was between 20 and 40 minutes I'd start some troubleshooting.

    To a great degree, D*'s not responsible for what the content providers allow them to make available on their VOD services....

    When I look through the lists of movies available on the VOD channels for the movie channels I subscribe to I see many hundreds of titles, what is it that you are expecting??? I don't personally expect 10's of thousands of titles, first run titles, etc.

    I didn't say YOU were, I said that people often do mix up the two topics. Many people think that PPV and VOD are the same, they are not. Although the method of delivery may be alike, they are not the same service.

    I'm sure THIS will open up an entire discussion concerning the differences between what is in the data streams of the various services, how some (like Netflix) adjust your PQ based on throughput, etc.

    You may not be experiencing throttling, but what you may be experiencing is the failure of your provider to be able to consistently maintain a sustained data flow needed for this service. I've seen it happen plenty. There IS a big difference between what services are advertised, what data transfer rates you can get on a 15 to 30 second "speed test" (depending on who's providing the speed test for you) and what is needed to provide a consistent, sustained, data rate between the 6-9 mbps required for D*'s service.

    My 20mbps service routinely tests between 15 and 18 mbps on prolonged testing and I've NEVER experienced the problem you've described, unless I was having some sort of hardware issue which I've always been able to find and correct.

    My favorite "trick" is to run a network speed test on my PS3, it's plugged into the ethernet port on my wireless CCK (which feeds network to my entire Whole Home System). That speed test usually shows between 12-15mbps over my wireless N network.
     
  20. Mar 4, 2012 #120 of 178
    sdirv

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    As the other guy stated....method of delivery is meaningless. :)

    I tend to find it important to split the discussions when discussing problems with one part of the system or the other.

    How do people without a DVR or internet connection on their D* setup do PPV??? Seemed like I had PPV available to me before I installed DVR's and before I hooked the internet up to my D* equipment.

    But I didn't have VOD before I installed a DVR and hooked it up to the internet.
     

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