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PAC-12 and DISH have deal

Discussion in 'DIRECTV Programming' started by DC_SnDvl, Sep 8, 2012.

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  1. tonyd79

    tonyd79 Hall Of Fame

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    Don't disagree with the analysis but I don't call it spin. If your analysis is right, it is honesty. It didn't go not depth but who would expect it to.

    As for raisin rates, didn't I read that Dish raised its sports pack by a dollar to accommodate PAC 12? If so, not a sign of the price being low.
     
  2. TheRatPatrol

    TheRatPatrol Hall Of Fame

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    I know how to solve this problem,
    bring back C-band! :D
     
  3. tonyd79

    tonyd79 Hall Of Fame

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    Strike up the C Band.

    No idea where I'd put a huge dish in my condo.
     
  4. maartena

    maartena Hall Of Fame

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    Hmmm.... Hawaii or Bakersfield.

    Tough choice there.
     
  5. TravelFan1

    TravelFan1 Legend

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    Keep in mind, thought, that the most sought-after audience, from most of the advertisers perspective, is the 18-34 male. Said audience will watch their sports over most everything else - so a 1 point audience for a sports event is worth more than a 1 for non-sports.
     
  6. chillyfl

    chillyfl Cool Member

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    My journey to find myself posting on this thread started last Saturday night, when I was with a group of friends at a (large chain) sports bar and the best game on AT THAT TIME was Arizona's improbable upset of Oklahoma State. But the Sports bar couldn't put the game on any of its dozens of TV's because the game was on the PAC-12 network and they had DIRECTV.

    While digging into the PAC-12/DIRECTV negotiations this week, I was extremely surprised to see DIRECTV being very misleading in their campaign against the P12N. For example, on their website they state:

    The theme is simple enough to get. "Hey, you're not going to miss that many games." The problem is that 144 is a made up number. There are only 90 total games with PAC-12 teams, not 144. Further the PAC-12 only had rights to home games, or 79 total games. Of those, they sold the rights of 44 games to Fox/FX and ABC/ESPN, and kept 35 games for the PAC-12 network. For your average consumer, seeing 23 out of 144 definitely sounds like a small percentage. But it is a bold-face lie on the part of DIRECTV.

    Going back to my Saturdays watching college football at Sports bars. 24 of the remaining 58 PAC-12 Saturday games are on the P12N. That is 41%, and I don't care how DIRECTV wants to spin it, that is not insignificant and it means I've started calling up sports bars to find out who has DISH to figure out where to go on Saturdays.

    Another statement that is misleading:

    So far, only 13 of the P12N's 35 football games have either been played or scheduled, with the other 22 TBD. Of those 13 games, 7 have (or will have) a nationally ranked team playing in that game. However, DIRECTV said ranked opponents (with an s), so the lawyer says they mean a game with 2 (not 1) ranked opponents. Reasonable, until you apply that litmus test to all networks. Of 148 games played by FBS teams in the first two weeks, only 3 games have had 2 ranked opponents in the game. That percentage will go up, but using last year as a benchmark, games with ranked opponents accounted for a whopping 6% of all FBS regular season games last year. If we are only going to consider games with two ranked opponents worthy of television, there would only be 3 or 4 games televised each week for the rest of the season. Bottom-line, that is not a fair litmus for assessing whether a network has value, otherwise very little college football would be on TV.
     
  7. JoeTheDragon

    JoeTheDragon Hall Of Fame

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    But NO BIG TEN ALT HD

    and no Comcast SportsNet California HD at all (they are in market)
     
  8. TravelFan1

    TravelFan1 Legend

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    If my memory doesn't fail me, plus include local sports and 120 doesn't.
     
  9. makaiguy

    makaiguy Icon DBSTalk Club

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    I worked for a Fortune 400 company in Michigan. Recruiting was always a problem as nobody wanted to move to the frigid north, so our employees tended to be largely from the upper midwest, where we didn't know any better. I suspect Big Ten schools are much the same in that they largely get students from the midwest, but who, as graduates, have spread all over the country to a larger extent than those schools that are located in more desirable climates. I'm now retired and in a primarly-retiree community in South Carolina. A large preponderance of my fellow residents, like me, are refugees from Big Ten areas. Thus I can see the attraction for having Big Ten Network available nationally, while perhaps having some other conference networks, where people may have tended not to stray so far from their alma maters, be more regional in coverage.

    At least, that's my theory. Don't know if it really holds any water ...
     
  10. nmetro

    nmetro Godfather

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    It does hold water.

    Ohio State, Michigan, Minnesota and Wisconsin have large enrollments and huge amount of Alumni. Each of these schools enroll over 40,000 students. Illinois, Penn State and Michigan State enroll in the high 30,000 range. And the rest are well in the high 20,000 to low 30,000 range, except Northwestern. Ohio State alone boasts over 500,000 alumni. I do not know any conference which have so many large schools and large amount of alumni.
    And this does not count fans because they live in a state or are related to someone who went to the school. all this translates into strong fan interest and a great deal of viewers. It does not mean the Big Ten is better then some other conference; they're not, but they have what advertisers like; numbers and lots of them. DISH, fro example, had 2.5 million people out of their 12 or so million having access to BTN. I suspect DirecTV has similar numbers, percentage wise.

    No slight against the PAC 12, but the comparable numbers of enrollment, alumni and incidental do not match that of the Big 10. Southern California certainly has the ability alone to be a treasure trove, but with so many options college sport is considered secondary. Also, the fan dollar is split because of the many options. In northern California you have a similar issue, as well as Seattle. The rest of the PAC 12 the university is the only game in town. In the Big 10, with the exception if Minnesota and Northwestern, college sport is the only true game in town.

    There is more more money to be made with the Big 10 over any other conference, with the possible exception of the SEC. Of course, if Notre Dame were to start their own network, it would probably be very successful because they have a national following. This can be seen by their successful ratings on NBC.

    Though, I find this whole idea of conference networks poorly conceived. With the outlets of FOX, ABC, ESPN, CBS and NBC related networks, there was already saturation; now it is a flood. Eventually, with Longhorrn Network and proposed networks fro the ACC and SEC; this saturation will eventually collapse unto itself. At that point, because of limited revenue, either the subscriber rates will have to be raised very high or the networks go out of business. The we will probably be back to just FOX, ABC, NBC, CBS and ESPN.
     
  11. BusterAvis

    BusterAvis Legend

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    Dish Network's deal with Big Ten Network just fell through.
    It's not happening. Dish Network chose not to carry the Big Ten Network.
    This significantly hurts the chances of DirecTV and Pac-12 Network coming to an agreement. DirecTV now can say, "we've got the more important national demanded conference network in BTN, where as Dish has the lesser important regional network out west in Pac-12 Network, and we are in better shape than Dish, therefore we don't have to carry Pac-12 Network at all and will gain more customers from Dish than we will lose them."

    Think about the all the midwest and Big Ten fans that will drop Dish Network for DirecTV. It will be significantly more than the number of people switching from DirecTV for Dish to get Pac 12 Network.
     
  12. peters4n6

    peters4n6 Legend

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    Sorry for lack of time to read whole thread, but will this affect pac-12 basketball at all? my recollection is that fox has a major presence in b-ball, but i'm not sure.
     
  13. David Ortiz

    David Ortiz Save the Clock Tower!! DBSTalk Club

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    Yes. There are 150 PAC-12 men's basketball games that will be on the PAC-12 Networks this season.
     
  14. Mariah2014

    Mariah2014 Breaking the mold

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    Somewhere...
    Roughly 2/3 of pac 12 men's home games are on pac 12 network.
     
  15. Bambler

    Bambler Legend

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    I feel like we're pawns in a game of chess being played out by the content providers and distributors. The distributors are fighting the providers. The distributors are fighting each other, while we the consumer are mere afterthoughts in all of this, yet ironically if it weren't for us none them would be around.

    If we really had true choices, capable alternatives and freedom in this game, these disputes would be non-existent and the power would be put back into the hands of the consumer, where it should be. But as it stands now, we really are pawns in a game of chess and have no choice but to fall on the proverbial sword to save the king(s).

    Sorry for the rant, but I'm sitting here switching my TV between DirecTV and Comcast again today because of this.
     
  16. nmetro

    nmetro Godfather

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    As mentioned my previous post, DISH hast 2.5 million (400,000 outside the Big 10 states) subscribers for BTN. I switched, putting that number to 399,999.

    I suspect DirecTV, and other providers, will gain most of the 400,000. But, how many of the 2.1 million left are die hard Big 10 fans? But, I suspect, defections larger from the Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Nebraska, Illinois, Wisconsin and Penn State crowd. Less so for Iowa, Indiana, Purdue, Minnesota, and Northwestern. Though, 500,000 of the remaining 2.1 million could be possible.
     
  17. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I believe it would be fair to say 2.5 million or 400k subscribers who received BTN. While BTN may have counted them as subscribers (all channels count subscribers based on the number of homes receiving their channel) many of them received BIG10 because they happened to be in BIG10 states and subscribed to a package that included dozens of other channels or they lived outside a BIG10 state and wanted the Multi-Sport Pack for other reasons (perhaps for the NFL Red Zone).

    How many of those 2.5 million wanted BTN? How many watched it when it was available?

    PAC-12 was added to DISH on DISH's terms. Other than the specific alternate channels (labeled ALT12 in the guide) they have joined DISH just like every other RSN DISH carries. It is a good addition for regional sports ... and having it in Multi-Sport (like every other RSN in the country) is good as well.

    There is certainly a regional desire to see one's local teams on their TV. And the sales of sports pack to DirecTV subscribers without Premier and Multi-Sport to DISH subscribers shows there is a desire for "out of market" sports. But I don't see an RSN being make or break for either provider. Especially one without a professional sports team.
     
  18. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

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    Yes, but in a way isn't a segment of "consumer" society responsible as well for these corporate battles?

    These are publicly traded companies are they not? When people buy stock in them don't they want ever increasing returns on their investments?

    So in many ways satellite, cable, and telco distributers are caught in a pickle. Struggling to maximize profits to their stockholders year in and out on one hand and control increasing operating costs (mainly from the providers) on the other.
     
  19. chillyfl

    chillyfl Cool Member

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    DIRECTV updated some of their canned answers for the PAC-12 network, but amazingly they are still saying the PAC-12 has 144 games total. The number 144 comes from 12 teams playing 12 games, ignoring that 54 conference games involve two teams, and you can't count a single game involving two PAC-12 teams twice (90 is the correct number of total games). However, I'm convinced that DIRECTV is being intentionally misleading. From DIRECTV's site:

    DIRECTV's message is "the P12N has a small percentage of the total games and the ones they have aren't that great." But why not at least use the right numbers. DIRECTV has come off unbelievably unprofessional in their whole dealing with the P12N.

    Oh yeah, as long as OSU and Nicholls St game is played, there are 21 games left.
     
  20. BigJ52

    BigJ52 Godfather

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    College Football writer, Bruce Feldman, tweet:

    "Larry Scott says he's "hopeful" DirecTV is on board by next SAT's Cal-USC game: "I'm hoping they listen to their customers."
     
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