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Pay TV is changing rapidly

9K views 177 replies 24 participants last post by  slice1900 
#1 ·
It's important to pay attention to the innovative leaders in every industry -- the companies with new ideas that are transforming old technologies. It's not so long ago that Blockbuster was the leader in the video rental space. Not that much time has passed since Kodak was the leader in the camera space. Many of us have experienced the shift in music listening media from vinyl records to cassette tapes, CDs, and then downloadable digital files. Things often change very quickly. Pay TV is changing rapidly as well.
They talked about creating three bundles of services using DirecTV -- for low, medium and heavy users.
Three bundles? What/How would this work?

http://www.technewsworld.com/story/84104.html?google_editors_picks=true
 
#60 ·
sorry bedford but you are living in a fantasy world that is never going to become reality.

ultimately, streaming services and the internet needed to access them will become just as expensive as current pay tv packages are now in one way or another. stockholders will make sure of that

comparing streaming services to what happen with music industry is moot. labels do not own the medium that people used to download music. whereas the major tv distributors also own the medium used to access streaming services
 
#61 · (Edited)
In my fantasy world, in my small town I used to pay 32 bucks for a pair of pants, Walmart moved in, Amazon started up, many other online sale sights came olnine, now 15 years later that same pair of pants are 22 bucks. And to think Walmart is considering adding TV packages to their VUDU online video service, well here comes Target etc. etc., maybe them pants can be had for 18 bucks in the future?

Competition is good for the consumer. and there is plenty coming in my fantasy streaming world.
 
#64 ·
of course competition is good for the consumer.

problem is there isn't any competition for the isp that you need to access these streaming services. you also seem to be completely obvious to the fact that the tv distributors are also the internet providers you need to access these streaming services.
 
#62 ·
Well 15 years ago those pants were made by hand, now the process is automated. Now a good comparison but good try.


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#63 ·
15 years ago
there was just copper wires for slow internet
You had to have a person and costing 800 bucks to set you up for sat. tv.
Cable guy would promise to show up at 12 and be there the next evening.

Now the process is totally automated with DirectTV Now, just click a button and have immediate streaming TV. Try it, we have entered the TV revolution.
 
#68 ·
Now the process is totally automated with DirectTV Now, just click a button and have immediate streaming TV. Try it, we have entered the TV revolution.
Click and go only works if one already has the network and required equipment in place.

I can order next day installation of DISH or DIRECTV ... it would work with my existing televisions (multiple) and I could build a system as large as needed to serve my home. It would not cost ME $800 for the installation (a subscriber acquisition cost that includes marketing) but I would be expected to keep the service for two years to pay off the satellite company's investment in me.

I obviously have an Internet connection (better than dialup) and I occasionally stream content but my home is not instantly ready for DIRECTV Now or any other streaming service. I would need to buy a new TV with data connectivity or some sort of box that would receive content from the Internet and display it on my TV (my BluRay player has some Internet functions ... but would it work with DIRECTV Now?). The only devices guaranteed to be able to get DIRECTV Now are my computer (which interferes with my actual computer usage) and my cell phone (which eats my data plan). More work for me to get that to display on the big screen.

No ... my house isn't DIRECTV Now ready and I am not naive enough to believe in "click and go" for everyone. There is no such thing as cutting the cord unless one stops watching content. All one is doing is exchanging one cord for another. If I were to decide today to drop satellite for streaming I would need to buy more bandwidth first ... and that would mean waiting for the cable company to install a drop to my house or scheduling an install with a WISP. Any money I would save on a satellite subscription would be lost on improving my Internet. (Even your $50-$80 estimates are more than I would save.) And the streaming delivery industry still has not caught up with the content available via satellite.

More money ... less content availability. Fiction and fantasy cannot match the reality of the industry.
 
#65 · (Edited)
Pull back the blinds, competition is there and will boom in 2017.
Competition is growing daily. Where do you think all those subscribers that the sat/cable companies are losing are going to?
DirectTV Now will be showing up on a lot o these new ISP's.

AT&T is moving into area's where they have never been, even outside their footprint.

Fixed wireless from a myriad of companies are racing to get the rural customers that have never had anything except crappy satellite internet and rotting copper pipes.

Google has just bought a fixed wireless service and will start providing fixed wireless service.
Link
Google Fiber's wireless plans take shape with purchase of a gigabit ISP

Windstream and others are planning to deploy fixed wireless broadband in the US.

Verizon is right in the thick of it also, T mobile etc. etc. will be providing wireless internet also.
There's still a lot we don't know about Verizon and AT&T's fixed wireless plans, but what's clear is that they intend to take on traditional cable Internet in an entirely new way -- which could give home Internet consumers more choices than ever before.

C Spire to install Fixed Wireless

Starry with their 5G fixed wireless is coming.

Dish with their massive amount of spectrum will be coming also.

Many communities/cities have installed their own fiber and now coming up they will be/are installing fixed wireless.

City after City and Counties are installing their own Fiber/Wireless networks with pricing around 50 bucks for unlimited 100 meg. and up service

Many Rural Electric coops are installing fiber and will be installing fixed wireless.
Subscribers are members of the coop, they will have to vote to raise the prices which are excellent.
Basic will offer up to 100 megabits per second (Mbps), upload and download speed, with no data caps, for $49.95 per month. The Gigabit offering will offer up to 1,000 Mbps, upload and download speed, with no data caps, for $79.95 per month.

This one blows my mind, of all places, the rugged ozark mountains will be getting cheap fiber to their rural customers.
Link
Ozarks Electric To Start Providing Internet, TV & Telephone Services
Link
OzarksGo
OzarksGo

Take a look here, this will start sweeping the nation.
Colorado Voters Choose Local Control In 26 Communities | community broadband networks

community broadband networks | Helping Communities Achieve True Self-Determination

2017 is going to be a rip roaring year for entrants into new areas,just 6 months needed to install a large area fixed wireless system.
Competition providing consumers with choices will keep the prices competitive.
 
#69 · (Edited)
LOL, yes the pants are the same brand/material and lasting just as long.
You are making this out to be way more complicated than it is.
What form of internet service do you currently subscribe to DSL? Wireless?
You are going to pay for that 800 dollar acquisition cost thru your high subscription fees.
DirectTV Now will give you a Free Apple TV box..
Sling TV will give you a free Roku Box.
Just plug into HDMI port on the TV and off you go.
GoogleCast dongle is what 30 bucks max? Sure Googles new TV service will give you one for free.
People must have internet in todays world anyway, that internet cost you are including is not realistic for the typical home.
Just click to purchase any of the new streaming services plug in the Free box and off you go, NO pesky contracts that lock you in, With the simple click of the mouse you can quit the service anytime and try the next greatest service that are sure to be coming. No expensive call center Human employees involved.
With High Speed internet reaching new customers everyday it won't be long before the traditional forms of getting TV service will be heavily eroded.
Looking like the typical 25 meg unlimited internet service is going to be around 50 bucks a month, this will satisfy the majority.
 
#70 ·
LOL, yes the pants are the same brand/material and lasting just as long.
Unfortunately DIRECTV Now is not the same material as DIRECTV satellite (or UVerse). SlingTV is not the same material as DISH Network.

DirectTV Now will give you a Free Apple TV box..
Sling TV will give you a free Roku Box.
Just plug into HDMI port on the TV and off you go.
So click ... wait for delivery, self install, upgrade Internet to new requirements, configure and go?
Minimizing the "ease of setup" does not eliminate the challenge.
 
#71 ·
My experience streaming movies/TV prove to be the same material as DirectTV/Cable.
Click on and enjoy hick up free 1080,surround sound video, I think the picture is better than sat. TV. Looking forward to a couple of clicks to cancel current streaming service and trying DirectTV Now. Try that with your cable provider.
 
#72 ·
My experience streaming movies/TV prove to be the same material as DirectTV/Cable.
So you are absolutely guaranteeing that every piece of content available via DIRECTV satellite is available via DIRECTV Now?

I do not believe you can honestly make that claim. And even if one includes other streaming options one would still come up short on content. (I hope you are not including illegal streaming options.)

Perhaps everything YOU have looked for is available via some streaming ... but certainly not everything that is available via satellite subscription.
 
#73 ·
Another claim I did not make.
What I am claiming is the content that I get from streaming is just as, if not better quality than cable/sat.
I do not want all the bloated content in the cable/sat packages.
Majority of people do not want it either. Remember research shows that people only watch 19 are fewer channels.
 
#74 ·
I did not question the quality in my previous posts ... I questioned the AVAILABILITY of said content. Quality is 0% if the content is not available.

You may not want ALL of the content in a cable/sat package ... but there are compromises made when leaving cable/sat for streaming. The issue of "ok, I can't get ____ without a cable/sat style subscription" is a compromise. Let cognitive dissonance kick in and tell you that the content you can't get isn't worth getting ("sour grapes" for those that don't know the bigger words). But you can't watch what isn't there.

Availability is where content (and content owners) remain king.
 
#75 ·
Another pebble to throw into this discussion... Don't make the mistake a lot of people do... don't equate company savings to consumer savings. As James notes, streaming companies are selling low right now because they can and because they want to attract customers. IF that shifts to being the norm, then content creators are going to expect more from those avenues, consumers will have less choice not to use those streaming options, and streaming will cost more to the consumer.

Meanwhile... companies look to save money wherever they can. Whenever they save money, you save money... just not directly. IF DirecTV's cost of business goes up 5%, you can bet your bill goes up at least 5%! BUT if DirecTV can keep that down to a 2% increase, then you've saved a little bit maybe. They aren't going to automatically "pass the savings along to you" but you can bet they will ALWAYS pass the cost increases along to you.

So... companies saving money increases their profit, which is always their goal... it's just hard to say if that ever saves consumers, because there's no mechanism to force that EXCEPT competition and consumer apathy.

You also have companies like Dish and DirecTV beginning to hedge their bets right now... just in case streaming becomes the thing... making sure they are ready to go with a footprint there.
 
#77 ·
Another pebble to throw into this discussion... Don't make the mistake a lot of people do... don't equate company savings to consumer savings. As James notes, streaming companies are selling low right now because they can and because they want to attract customers. IF that shifts to being the norm, then content creators are going to expect more from those avenues, consumers will have less choice not to use those streaming options, and streaming will cost more to the consumer.
Assuming that the content owners are being paid the same for a subscription via streaming as they are being paid for a subscription via satellite (as the WSJ article used for calculation) it is the distributor (AT&T|DIRECTV) who is offering a product at penny profits or a loss. Which works as long as there is a bigger service keeping the company in business.

At the end of the day content providers want money. They are not greedy, they just want to be paid. And they will follow a path to payment that is most beneficial to their company. Part of the risk of streaming is the "no commitment" nature ... but they may assume that they will get their $1 from the customer subscribing to the content whether they subscribe via satellite, cable or any other service. The content owner doesn't care what end distributor or delivery method is used as long as they get paid and the content is secured so everybody pays. (They may prefer that a customer subscribes through a distributor that pays more per subscriber ... UVERSE was paying more per subscriber than DIRECTV ... but a subscriber is a subscriber.)

The primary threat to the content owners is not the delivery method but the a la carte nature of streaming. They want subscribers to their channels whether or not those subscribers watch. (Viewers help ratings which helps ad sales and signing contracts to be in better bundles, but just being delivered to a home is a primary goal. Content channels want to be delivered to the maximum amount of homes.)

So what we are seeing ... in real life ... is the continuance of packages. Perhaps "skinny bundles" that are smaller and appear to be cheaper but the content owners are king - and they continue to support the package model, not the pick your favorite 19 channels model.

You also have companies like Dish and DirecTV beginning to hedge their bets right now... just in case streaming becomes the thing... making sure they are ready to go with a footprint there.
It is a smart move. The content owners are supporting it and being able to leverage 13-24 million subscribers via satellite/cable gives DISH and DIRECTV a better deal than a smaller company. (A primary reason AT&T bought DIRECTV was to raise their customer count to make negotiating for the OTT service easier.)

It gives the package oriented content providers a good place to go to remain in packages. And the best chance of staying in (eventually) millions of homes.

DISH and DIRECTV are not going to throw away billions of dollars worth of satellites and abandon satellite delivery. But they certainly can keep their foot in the door for those who want something different. Skinny bundles via satellite is a nice side effect to the deals DISH made for SlingTV. Although anyone who thinks that the consumer will save money needs to look at the prices and what is not available.
 
#76 · (Edited)
By the time Google, Verizon, Netflix and all the others introduce their skinny bundles, there will be low cost packages that millions of people will accept and drop their cable/sat subscriptions for. now doubt about it.
We just seen DirectTV raise their prices again, bet next year there will be another price hike, all the while a dwindling subscriber base must pay more and more to keep it profitable. Well known fact that the sat. TV market has matured and will be declining. While the streaming services will be gaining subscibers, AT&T hopes to get 20 million subs for DirectTV Now. Dish is hoping to get 20 million for SlingTV, Google going after xxxx amount of subscribers, Verizon aiming for multi million subscribers, all these new streaming services have to get their subscribers from somewhere and we know there is only a set amount of young cord nevers to go around. There will be Full Blown packages that will replicate cable/sat bundles offered by most of the players as this tech matures. Take the entrants like Google and the others that do not have to protect a declining TV service and you will see more varied bundles arriving, also there are new content creators coming out that will add to this TV revolution.
 
#79 ·
Chiming in randomly, because of checking out things after the forum upgrade...

My take on his cost post was the same as Aridon's... I can't speak to the monetary values... but it has to be LOTS cheaper to transmit via IP than to have to maintain satellites and uplink sites. So while other costs of creating/transmitting programming would be the same... there would be a substantial savings for a company to transmit the same content via streaming vs a satellite service. So I can see that being a thing that might drive development in that direction. I think there are other hurdles, though, not the least of which being lack of availability nationwide of quality/reliable high-speed Internet access within the US that will stall this being an immediate threat to satellite services.
I doubt it really is once the satelites are already up there. The amount of money it costs to keep a massive network running all around the country isn't cheap. Why do you think Netflix is paying for better access from providers? And how much do you think it's cost to wire fiber to everyone home in say Los Angeles vs launching a satellite that hits the entire country? Backend similar probably...
 
#80 ·
But of course the only company with satellites up there are companies like Dish and DirecTV. And they have satellites that have been up there long enough to need replacing, which means new investments in new satellites to replace those... so new companies don't have the cash to invest in the satellite biz... and existing companies could save money by not having to keep building and launching new ones. Their cost doesn't drop to zero, nobody suggests that... only that delivering online might be a cheaper option for them.
 
#84 ·
But to start a streaming company you don't have to build that fiber network... you just have to connect to the existing infrastructure. The ISPs have to do that build-out. Of course, that is lacking in a lot of the US right now... but streaming isn't going to take off for anyone until that becomes the norm... and once it is the norm, the ISPs will be maintaining that, not the content providers of the streaming services.
 
#87 ·
And if that happens... and it possibly could... that, along with increased cost of content to streaming providers will mean we will very soon not be saving money over the current payTV model... which is, essentially, what many of us have predicted. That cheap-streaming gravy train is only going to stay cheap while it is the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th options for viewers... IF it ever becomes the primary "stream" then it will cost accordingly.
 
#89 ·
There really isn't any high speed internet for large areas of the country - I live in Maine and a great deal (area wise) of the state doesn't even have cell phone service and only has land line because the government forces it. I'm sure there are plenty other areas of the country that are similar. Satellite is really the great solution and I'm sure will continue to be great for years.

20 years out - who can tell what technology will be and do by then - something we all don't even conceive of yet.
 
#97 ·
Here comes Maine, a lot quicker than most want to believe.

RedZone plans to provide coverage to 90% of Maine's population by 2018.



AT&T ready to roll.
Link
Redzone, Maine Fiber team up to expand 'last mile' internet service

With industry deregulation, slashing corp. tax rate, bringing back Trillions of offshore (tax shelter) money back into the American Economy, that combined with the urgent demand for upgrading networks plus newer available technology, we are going to see a boom like Never before.

The technology sector represents 55 per cent of Moody's projected $1.3 trillion in foreign-held corporate cash for the end of 2016

Unlike other developed nations, the U.S. taxes corporate income globally, but it allows companies to defer paying tax on offshore earnings until they decide to repatriate that income. As a result, U.S. companies have avoided U.S. taxes by stashing roughly $2.6 trillion offshore, a figure cited by Congress's Joint Committee on Taxation. The top five in order of overseas cash holdings as of Sept. 30, are Apple ($216 billion), Microsoft ($111 Billion), Cisco ($60 billion), Oracle Corp. ($51 billion) and Alphabet Inc. ($48 billion).

Trump's Economic Plan Cuts Corp Tax to 15%, Redoes Trade Deals - Breitbart

Trump Team's Memo Hints at Broad Shake-Up of U.S. Energy Policy

U.S. tech giants poised to benefit most from Trump's cash repatriation plan: Moody's
 
#91 ·
i don't think fixed wireless will be the answer in most rural areas either. The truly independent WISP's are extremely localized and performance by those companies vary. Some are great and some are terrible

Sure AT&T and some of the other big companies might start offering it, but that will just allow them to jack the prices up to make up their tv revenue
 
#94 · (Edited)
Need to see what's coming down the Pike.
5G is going to bring lower costs per bit.
Multiple Players entering Fixed Wireless Market (competition keeps price low, High/unlimited download caps)
Infrastructure spending out the roof, communication companies will be spending Billions and Billions.
Verizon says it will pursue a commercial 5G rollout city-by-city in 2018 and 2019
Do Not forget about the IOT (will be 40 times the size of the Human Internet) these synergies/volume will help keep internet affordable and everywhere and keep streaming TV subscriptions cheap.
AT&T going after 15 million 4.5G Fixed Wireless Customers
All of the Fiber and Fixed Wireless rollouts by CoOps, cities, regions mentioned earlier in this thread will greatly accelerate.
Hold on tight in 2017 and beyond, going to be fun watching it all play out.
TV subscription market will have many companies able to provide service to the rural customer where satellite has been the only means till now. 5G will provide competition in the Larger cities to compete with the cable companies.
Remember the "Portal" mentioned earlier in this thread.
Here is a clue.
"gives some idea of why AT&T Inc. (NYSE: T) would want Time Warner Inc. (NYSE: TWX), the sites of which are broken into pieces. Turner Digital, the largest of them, had unique visitors of 132 million."
Google Tops Web Traffic List, Followed by Yahoo and Facebook

Ergen: Dish not doing M&A deal would be 'malpractice' in the wake of AT&T-Time Warner merger | FierceCable

Dish Network's Ergen: OTT will 'chop up' the pay-TV ecosystem | FierceCable

Top 3 US Carriers Still Interested in DISH's Spectrum | Androidheadlines.com

Softbank owner of Sprint

Trump Announces Japanese Telecom Co. Will Invest $50 Billion to Create 50,000 Jobs in U.S. - Breitbart

Google wants to test in 3.5 GHz band in up to 24 markets | FierceWireless

Cheap, Fast, compete with cable.
SpaceX plans worldwide satellite Internet with low latency, gigabit speed

The Road to Mars is Paved with Internet Gold • /r/spacex
 
#95 · (Edited)
Booming, should reach a lot of Rural Customers.

"Two major telcos expressed interest today in possibly reselling AT&T over-the-top (OTT) video offerings launched last week. In separate question-and-answer sessions, company executives outlined current Frontier and CenturyLink OTT video plans, but also said they might be interested in a wholesale relationship with AT&T involving the AT&T OTT video offerings."

CenturyLink and Frontier Weigh OTT Options, Float DIRECTV NOW Resale Option - Telecompetitor

AT&T already has hit the December target the company had set for its DIRECTV NOW sales figures
CEO on AT&T DIRECTV NOW Sales: December Sales Target Reached Already - Telecompetitor

Frontier Freedom TV is Latest Hybrid Video Model, Favors OTT and Local - Telecompetitor
 
#96 · (Edited)
Huge Spending soon to be announced by Comm. companies across the board. Will take massive amounts of investment to meet demand, get ready.

Internet video to TV grew 50 percent in 2015
. This traffic will continue to grow at a rapid pace, increasing 3.6-fold by 2020. Internet video to TV will be 26 percent of fixed consumer Internet video traffic in 2020.
See why the prices have dropped to .5 cents for 1 hour of video. 5G will drop this even further.
Content delivery networks (CDNs) will carry nearly two-thirds of Internet traffic by 2020. Sixty-four percent of all Internet traffic will cross CDNs by 2020 globally, up from 45 percent in 2015.

Gearing up for data volume explosion, Amazing!
"It would take more than 5 million years to watch the amount of video that will cross global IP networks each month in 2020. Every second, a million minutes of video content will cross the network by 2020"
The Zettabyte Era-Trends and Analysis

The total volume of data generated by IoT will reach 600 ZB per year by 2020, 275 times higher than projected traffic going from data centers to end users/devices (2.2 ZB); 39 times higher than total projected data center traffic (15.3 ZB).

The Zettabyte Era-Trends and Analysis

With Internet Of Things And Big Data, 92% Of Everything We Do Will Be In The Cloud
 
#98 ·
Sure, a majority of the money held overseas is held by tech companies. But they are companies like Apple, Microsoft and Facebook, not AT&T and Verizon. Apple isn't going to bring cash back and build networks. In fact, I doubt much of that money would get invested by companies - it will most likely be used for debt retirement, share buybacks and dividends.

The fantasy the money would be used for investing in the US was the reason behind the foolhardy repatriation done under Bush. That repatriation is the direct cause of why so much money is left overseas now - companies like Apple are willing to wait however many years it takes for the US to either have another repatriation holiday (TERRIBLE idea) or making a permanent change that provides more incentive to bring money back (how it should be done)

Lowering the US tax rate will help, since so long as money has been taxed at or near the rate in the US, there is no reason not to bring it home. But if it is has been taxed much more lightly (some overseas schemes allow money to be taxed as low as 2%, depending on the type of income and where it was earned) so even if you lower the rate to say 15% companies will start piling up that 2% taxed money by the billions waiting for another foolish repatriation holiday.
 
#102 ·
Let's be real here. The vast majority of people live in Cell phone coverage and even have broadband access. While it is true the Rural folks get left out they are a fairly tiny sub group. Directv and Dish will be around for a long time and if they aren't and you still don't have Internet well that is what happens when you live in the sticks. That is why you don't have other services. You choose

2016 Broadband Progress Report

10% lack access to 25mbs. That means 90% have access. In addition you don't need 25mbs for streaming. 8mbs cricket unlimited does just fine and is $55 a month for a good chunk of that 10% and WISP or other types of wireless will be deployed. You were never going to get a fiber line to your house regardless and even city folk aren't going to see fiber because just about everyone knows that the future has little to do with running wires to every house in the USA.

Anyway, progress isn't going to stop because some people choose to live in the sticks. You'll still have access to satellite for the foreseeable future and if that should ever no longer be profitable to deliver you TV service you just won't get it. Just like water, sewer and other services.
 
#104 · (Edited)
It's NOT just the "sticks' and "rural" areas that are stuck without broadband. There's many suburbs where the only option is 3 Mbps DSL or less and cable isn't an option. Heck, BOSTON of all cities doesn't have FiOS. Verizon wanted to force DSL only areas to expensive capped wireless after Sandy destroyed some of their copper network on areas on Long Island where they had ZERO plans to deploy FiOS. There's STILL areas on Long Island beyond Optimum's fiber network where they're stuck on a 500 MHz network with 60 analog channels and no HD.

Cable companies reporting entire areas where they have a franchise instead of only reporting the streets actually wired for their service also pollute the results. Telcos do the same thing by reporting places where their fiber network "passes", but not which buildings are actually wired for the service. (Which kind of matters in major cities since many people are renting in apartment buildings and not houses they own) For DSL they report the highest speed available in an area, even though only people close to the CO get those speeds. (Especially Verizon, where not only have they stopped expanding their fiber network, they also limit areas on RTs to 3 Mbps or less, even though there's nothing technical limiting their fiber fed RTs to deliver the same speeds as people connected directly to the CO get)

Not everyone "chooses" to live in the sticks either, some have to for work related reasons, others were priced out of other areas and it's the only place they could afford to live comfortably and start a family, instead of spending 90% of their paycheck on rent for a one room apartment in a city.

Also, yeah you don't need 25 mbps, if only 2 or 3 people are watching at the same time. But you need a lot more than that if you want to replicate a 5 room installation and use the internet for something besides watching TV at the same time. Or you don't want the TV to start buffering like crazy and dipping to a resolution lower than SD because someone else turned on their PS4 or XBone and have 20 GB+ worth of updates start downloading, at the same time someone else is binge watching House of Cards or Orange is the New Black in 4K on Netflix.
 
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