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Picture Quality on VIP922 vs VIP722

Discussion in 'ViP922 DVR Support Forum' started by O'Shag, Jun 25, 2012.

  1. O'Shag

    O'Shag Cool Member

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    Jun 25, 2012
    A few weeks ago I had a VIP922 shipped to me. It was much anticipated. I've been a Dish member for many years, and have spent several years with the VIP722. The story is no doubt familiar to you. The VIP722 served me well for a while but then I went through a series of replacements, all of which were worse than the orignal. The VIP722 has been improved over the years and is now what I would describe as robust in terms of relability.

    I still have posession of my VIP722, and the new VIP922 that Dish sent to me. Upon initial experience with the VIP922 I like some things very much about it but am puzzled by others. I feel thiis box is a perfect example of an excess of technology and features that in the end somewhat compromise the overall experience.

    My major issue however is that in comparing the picture quality of both, I've observed a marked superiority to the VIP722 picture. The picture is more resolved and definitely brighter and more dynamic. Just for reference, the TV I use is a Pioneer Kuro Elite Pro 151FD. I usually watch in ISF 'Day" mode or in Pure mode. I've spent considerable time switching between the two and there is just no question that the VIP722 has the better picture. Why is this? I know that the chipsets are different and perhaps this has something to do with it? Also worth noting is that I have LNB drift (definitely have to replace the LNB) and I am thinking that perhaps this is limiting bandwidth on the 922?

    Please, any suggestions would be most appreciated. You see, I have to decide which unit to keep as one has to go back to Dish. PLEASE HELP!

    Many thanks
     
  2. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    Mediterranea...
    LNBF drift wouldn't be the reason (sat tuner compensating the value), but cramming MPEG decompression engines - two BCM7412 inside of ViP722 into one chip inside of ViP922 would be.
     
  3. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Leapin' Lizard Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Curious... My 922 always looks the same or better than my 722 when I have compared.

    Are you sure the 922 is set on the proper resolution?

    IF so... I recommend setting the 922 to 480i and accepting that... then switching it to 720p or 1080i (whatever you use) and see if that makes a difference.

    Sometimes Dish receivers "stick" and aren't doing what the settings indicate they should be.
     
  4. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    Mediterranea...
    Is your 922 running last version of FW ? - Press Menu twice for the check.
     
  5. O'Shag

    O'Shag Cool Member

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    Jun 25, 2012
    Thanks much P Smith. That is interesting indeed. So you are suggesting that combining the functions of two mpeg decompression chips onto one chip could result in reduced output/resolution?

    Also, does the screen sizing on the 922 menu affect the overall picture or just the menu?

    I know it will seem to some that I am being to picky but picture quality is my highest priority. Also I don't mean to suggest the picture quality of the VIP922 is bad. In direct comparison I do see clear differences. The picture overall is darker in the 922, and it it doesn't quite have the dimensionaility of the VIP722 (this comes from better resolution overall).

    Examples - I watched Toy Story 3 and Hello Dolly last night. On Toy Story 3 the VIP922 looked good, but switching over to the VIP922 the picture looked outstanding. Hello Dolly is a marvellous picture with gorgeous colors and lots of movement. Again good on the VIP922, but going back to the VIP722 reveals the dynamic contrasts and and bright colors that seem more muted on the 922. Also the 722 produced a more dimensional picture in both cases.
     
  6. O'Shag

    O'Shag Cool Member

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    Jun 25, 2012
    Thanks Stewart. I will cycle through the resolution setting as you suggest.

    I should mention also the changs in volume when changing for single mode to duo mode.
     
  7. O'Shag

    O'Shag Cool Member

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    Jun 25, 2012
    Hi P Smith, my FW version is S002F10AE018

    My software verion is S118XAMB

    Thanks
     
  8. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    We don't have finite answer from Broadcom, but judging from my experience, that type of integration would change decompression engines and its own firmware for sure.
     
  9. O'Shag

    O'Shag Cool Member

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    Jun 25, 2012
    Some additional experience with the 922 so far.

    With respect to BB@Home and Sling, the 922 has performed correctly. I don't yet have a high-speed modem (but am getting one next week from Verizon). The reduced bandwidth capacity of my current service/modem limits maximum picture quality when watching live tv on an iPad via sling. As I understand it, when I upgrade to a high-speed high-bandwidth internet service and modem, the picture will automatically be better when watching programming via Sling.

    The 922 menu system is proving excellent as I get used to it.

    The Sirius XM radio music channels sound much improved played from the 922 versus the 722. I send the digital bitstream via toslink out to a Parasound Halo C1 processor (using C1 internal DAC) and A52 amp driving Monitor Audio GR60 speakers or Infinity Prelude MTS speaker system


    Problems include the inability of the 922 to read one of my external drives, which is a 2TB Western Digital drive. My other drives are 1TB Western Digital drives and are readable via the 922 without any issues. Contrary to what I've read, I do have the ability to watch programming material directly from the external hard drive without first having to restore to the 922 internal drive (a 20-minute process), which would put me right off as I do watch a lot of material direct ffrom external drive.

    I would suggest to Dish that they improve their user manual which is disjointed and is missing useful information. I found myself guessing on important questions as it was not readily available from the user manual.
     
  10. O'Shag

    O'Shag Cool Member

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    Can someone explain why Broadcom combined the two decompression chips onto one chip, and why there was two decompression chips as opposed to one in the first place? Is there a performance advantage of some sort in combining the two on one, or is it done to reduce cost?

    Thanks
     
  11. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    Mediterranea...
    That's common trend - incorporate all separates chips into one: to reduce a cost, to reduce number of lines, etc.
     
  12. O'Shag

    O'Shag Cool Member

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    Jun 25, 2012
    And so to finish up this thread. I was expecting more feedback, but thanks to Stewart Vernon and P Smith for your input. .

    I have decided to send the VIP922 back (a new unit) and keep the VIP722 they sent me as a replacement for my faulty VIP722.

    Given that I have wanted a VIP922 for some time coupled with the fact that I have gotten a new unit speaks volumes. Perhaps Dish has lost the plot a bit, or perhaps I have underestimated the general dish subscribers' preference for whiz-bang menu and features over picture quality, not that the current quality of compressed/de-compressed signals via Dish or even DirectTV can match a good quality blu-ray player or HD-DVD player.

    I find P Smith's observation regarding the change in chip architecture vis-a-vis the combining of two de-compression chips onto one chip as a plausible argument for the cause in picture quality degradation going from a VIP722 to VIP922.

    That there is a difference is clear. I don't have to strain to look. As soon as I switch back from the 922 to the 722 the improvement is immediately noticable.

    I'm disappointed in Dish because I think its reasonable to expect with the release of any new statement flagship product that it be at least as godd as or better in the one area that matters most ; picture quality. How do I define picture quality differences (applying to both film-based and video-based material) between the VIP722 and VIP922?

    What stands out immediately is the perception of depth in the VP722. The picture on the VIP922 is less dimensionally resolved. Everything seems flatter on the VIP922 whereas on the 722 on the best material it can provide the sense of a much higher degree of transparency to the material.

    Second and also immediately obvious is that the VIP722 presents a more dynamic picture with better contrast, brightness and color. The VIP922 seems muted and hazy by comparison. For instance, people will more readily appear as three dimensional objects seperate from backgrounds. The performance of the VIP922 suffers moreso when there is a lot of movement.

    Noise. The picture generated from the VIP922 is generally more grainy, hazy and moving about (in the wrong way) whereas the VIP722 presents a more stable, less grainy, less hazy and more resolved image.

    Finally, the most improtant difference of all; the picture on the VIP722 is capable of grabbing my attention and getting me more involved in watching the movie, sporting event, concert - wat have you. Its capable of making me go wow, even if its not to the extent of blu-ray or hd-dvd player sources. I DID NOT ONCE FEEL THIS WAY WATCHING TV FROM THE VIP922.

    So really in the end there is no contest. The 922 is going back.

    Hope others will find this of use.
     
  13. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    Mediterranea...
    I feel I should stop by at your place with a Hopper (last creation of e*) to see what you'll find during comparison with your 722. I'm thinking you got somehow unique 722, I mean it has perfectly working chips (everyone has same FW, but only in your setup it is so advanced against 922) and discrete components of HDMI video circuit.
     
  14. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Leapin' Lizard Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I'm still inclined to say something is just not right... because I have a 922 and a 722 and I can't tell any significant different (outside of the GUI of course) in the presentation of regular or HD channels on either when connected to my same HDTV.
     
  15. O'Shag

    O'Shag Cool Member

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    Jun 25, 2012
    Hi Stewart and P. The plot thickens.

    I don't iunderstand how this happened, but I have just witnessed a transformation of picture quaity on the VIP922. This is not a slight change, but orders of magnitude better than before and more in line with what I was expecting friom the VIP922.

    The sudden transformation is a little disconcerting because I believe I had the settings correct. Is it possible that you guys were correct in that the unit sometimes doesn't select the right resolution setting despite being on the 1080i setting?

    Or could it be the actual signal sent is different for the VIP922 than for the 722, and the 922 unit has been processing a signal designed for the 722?

    Or could it be a case of break-in?

    Puzzling.... Sufficed to say that I am much happier with what I am seeing now and will definitely keep the 922 and send the 722 back.
     
  16. Jhon69

    Jhon69 Hall Of Fame

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    Glad to see it worked out for you,I have had the 622,722k and now the 922 every time I have went to a higher receiver number the video has improved every time.I just had my 922 replaced and the video on it is better than the previous one.The older model was from China,the newer one India does that make a difference it seems like it did.

    Now let us know when you decide 720p is better than 1080i.I have always ran mine on 1080i and just lately I switched to 720p,the reason is simple one what is an HD picture,a HD picture is a progressive picture and 1080p and 720p are progressive pictures,and since 1080p is not an option 720p it is.I used to think something is wrong with FOX and ABC for broadcasting in 720p,but I have since changed my mind to think the opposite.

    1080i is a clearer picture,but 720p is not only a clear picture but on my 55" LED HDTV 720p has deeper colors the direct reason being the picture is progressive.So in closing just want you to know I really like my VIP922/wMT2.:)

    P.S. On my HDTV SD channels look better also in 720p.;)
     
  17. O'Shag

    O'Shag Cool Member

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    Jun 25, 2012
    Thanks Jhon69 - I will try the 720p settings as you suggest.
     
  18. O'Shag

    O'Shag Cool Member

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    Jun 25, 2012
    The VIP722 went back today. It was a very hard choice to make and if I am to be honest it was almost the 922 that I returned.

    I think I have a pretty good read on things now, and I still hold to my orignial observation that the 722 has the more engaging picture.
    if the signal from Satellite providers were not quite so compressed then perhaps the results would be different however the 722 has something nifty going on that helps the less-than-perfect signal sharpen up and take away some noise artifacts. I believe the 722 has some form of scaling algorithm or perhaps some scan rate upconversion - I don't know for sure but in switching back and forth the picture between the 722 and 922 is quite different. The 722 gives the impression of greater transparency. The 922 I have has a decidedly more yellow hue than the 722.

    I m going to pursue this with Dish becuase all here seem to have different relsults.

    Bottom line is I am now a VIP922 user going forward and have to say the menu system is so bloody awesome. Now to enjoy a glass or two of wine and watch the Wimbleton men's semi-finals I taped earlier.

    Cheers
     
  19. Jhon69

    Jhon69 Hall Of Fame

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    Central San...

    The 922 is a work in progress and so is the Hopper&Joeys because they are DISH's future,this is a relatively new system with the Logo EPG and Menu Tiles.Don't know if you added a MT2(Dual OTA Tuners Module) to your 922 like I did mine,but if you do that will give you the ability to record 4 programs at the same time(2SAT+2OTA) while watch a previously recorded program.

    The 722k and 222 can also accept the MT2 also,but only the 922 has the new format.Because it has the new format and can accept the MT2 that gives the 922 one up,or I should say 2 up on the Hopper system until DISH can bring out a dual OTA tuners module for it,or if ever.;)
     

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