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Please write to Directv about native 4x3 problem.

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by mgavs, Nov 5, 2007.

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  1. Nov 7, 2007 #141 of 252
    mgavs

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    Ok folks, based on the the post here and I completely rewrote the letter. For those who still do not see my problem please read post 1. I sure hope it helps. Then, if you want to help, please write to Directv for the poor folks suffering through this.
     
  2. Nov 7, 2007 #142 of 252
    cartrivision

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    Yes it is. I've done it. With the suggested settings, the HR20 will output 480i 4:3 video when watching an SD source and will output 720p or 1080i 16:9 video when watching an HD source.... all without having to switch anything on the HR20 when switching between SD and HD sources.
     
  3. Nov 7, 2007 #143 of 252
    RehabMan

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    Sure would be nice to verify what resolutions are actually output as the various settings are changed...

    Otherwise, as you mention, a lot of conjecture...

    If it is just an HDMI AR tagging issue (which it may be) why this can't be ignored in the scaler is beyond me. The manual for the VP50 clearly states it is possible. Whether you can do that in the case of the TV -- that depends on the TV you have.

    But it would be nice to know whether the output on HDMI is any different in the case of 480i SD in "stretch" mode depending on whether 4:3 or 16:9 is selected (excepting for the AR flag, which by conjecture we are concluding is set based on the TV aspect configuration in the HRs setup menu -- I'm wondering about the actual frame data/resolution). I don't think we have a definitive answer to that question yet.
     
  4. Nov 7, 2007 #144 of 252
    mgavs

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    You can't get SD 480 4x3 to output as 480 4x3 with HDTV set to 16x9 without crop, pillar, or stretch. The TV shows the input signal 480 16x9. If you do not see the problem that's great for you but I need letters from those who would like to see the fix, that's all.
     
  5. Nov 7, 2007 #145 of 252
    mgavs

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    I can and have verified everything using the scaler. But I sure would like people to drop it, if you read the letter it's not the scaler. I don't know why some people don't understand I am just asking for non-modified signals. Some want the TV to fix the problem. Not a solution here.
     
  6. Nov 7, 2007 #146 of 252
    cartrivision

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    Those are not the settings that you have been told will give you what you need.

    If you would rather write letters than use the solution provided in this thread, great for you, but that looks like an unnecessary exercise in futility.
     
  7. Nov 7, 2007 #147 of 252
    mgavs

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    Folks, I was looking for support here. I know many have tried to help and part of the confusion was my reference to native resolution instead of aspect ratio. If you don't have the problem that's great for you. But it is real and I have it here on 2 TVs. At least a couple of people posted here they saw it as well. I really would prefer people sympathetic to the problem write to Directv. There is no other solution or workaround available here, regardless of what some might think. I have been working on this for 3 straight weeks and need letters. Many thanks to all who tried to help.
     
  8. Nov 7, 2007 #148 of 252
    mgavs

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    I am sorry you feel that way since we will never see eye to eye on this. Thanks for you attempts though.
     
  9. Nov 7, 2007 #149 of 252
    mgavs

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    I think youre on to something with the tagging issue. But I think it's intentional on the HR20s part since it always adds crop, pillar or stretch to the picture. BTW, boy am I glad to see a couple of people saw a difference! And thanks for the aggreement, it helps my frustration a lot!
     
  10. Nov 7, 2007 #150 of 252
    cartrivision

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    It's not a matter of how I feel. I completely understand what you want and why you want it, and I am trying to help you to recognise that no changes to the HR20 are necessary to get what you want, but the fact that in your previous reply to me you still didn't understand what the HR20 settings have to be to get what you want is troubling.
     
  11. Nov 7, 2007 #151 of 252
    mgavs

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    When the Sony is set to Variable 1 and Normal (the equivalent of native) it always outputs 480 4x3 as such. It never expanded 480 4x3 to 480 16x9 as the HR20 does. I verified this with the VP which showed 480i 4x3, even though the display was set to 16x9. This allowed the TV or processor to do the work. I kept the Sony to use as an OTA receiver.
     
  12. Nov 7, 2007 #152 of 252
    veryoldschool

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    Since my Sony displays aspect ratio and using native "on":
    With 16:9 set, both HD & SD channels are tagged 16:9
    With 4:3 set, SD is tagged 4:3, while HD is tagged 16:9
     
  13. Nov 7, 2007 #153 of 252
    kwsmithphoto

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    It does, I just haven't gotten around to trying it with an HDMI adapter yet.

    Good question, I just changed it which did absolutely nothing, it was always running at 16:9 anyway, even with a composite source! Apparently it resamples everything without changing the AR.

    I don't know what it's native resolution is because it's not in the manual, but it "supports" - without it's companion tuner but over component - virtually everything up to 1080i including 720x576 i and p which isn't used by anything, as far as I know. The system is old and strange but cost $5000 for a 42" display, including the oddball VGA tuner thing, so my guess is it was the best one in the store she went to at the time (Magnolia's first store in LA). My -guess- is that it's 720p native though since the display syncs faster to that than it does it 1080i. Can't tell much about image quality during the day, the room is too bright, but I'll investigate that later.

    Apparently what I posted about Native On or Off above is incorrect - now if I set Native to On, the HR20 puts out 1080i, 720p, or 480i, depending on the source. Must have had something else set wrong since I just went in and told the HR20 that the display accepts everything, so now it switches. In any case, the display always rescales without changing the AR, as I mentioned above, whether Native is on or off.

    There is no Format button on the display's remote, just Zoom. If I go into it's menu, Format, Sync, and Phase are all blanked out. Apparently, the display gets that info over the composite cables and disables the user controls.

    Thanks for your offer of offline help, I just might take you up on it! But for now I'm going to run it for a while with Native On and let the HR20 follow the source and see how it looks tonight. That didn't work before and now it does. Very strange!
     
  14. Nov 7, 2007 #154 of 252
    veryoldschool

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    Feel free to since we don't want to hijack this thread.
    You might try "un-check" 1080i and let the HR-20 output it in 720p. It would [should] reduce the number of scaling steps for 1080i signals.
     
  15. Nov 7, 2007 #155 of 252
    cartrivision

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    Wow, that sounds eerily like what the OP would need in order to be able to do his scaling outside of the HR20. Someone should tell him. :D
     
  16. Nov 7, 2007 #156 of 252
    mgavs

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    deleted
     
  17. Nov 7, 2007 #157 of 252
    mgavs

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    I can't understand the confusion some have. That's basically what's in my letter. Someone needs to read it slowly and carefully. With 4x3 set, HD has bars on top/bottom. BTW, this is the reason I hate "email meetings" with clients, a few minutes on the phone is worth days of email sometimes.
     
  18. Nov 7, 2007 #158 of 252
    veryoldschool

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    Now I don't have "your setup", but I just tried this on mine:
    HDTV set to standard 4:3
    Stretch mode.
    HD doesn't have bars top & bottom.

    Try this with yours.
     
  19. Nov 7, 2007 #159 of 252
    Redlinetire

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    I can understand the frustration.

    But 98% of the TVs out there have no problem with this.

    You, rather unfortunately, have both a $3000 scaler and probably equally expensive TV that are mis-interpreting the signal coming from the HR20. Sucks to be you. But not the fault of D*.

    There is no aspect ratio information coming from HR20.
     
  20. Nov 7, 2007 #160 of 252
    veryoldschool

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    Then what does my Sony trigger on over HDMI?
    The same settings on my TV and same SD channel will display 16:9 or 4:3 depending on the settings in my HR-20.
    I must think there IS a flag or bit being sent from the HR-20, since the image size never changed.
     
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