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Police: 13 dead; 58 injured in Colorado theater shooting

Discussion in 'The OT' started by Unknown, Jul 20, 2012.

  1. RunnerFL

    RunnerFL Well-Known Member

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    I guess you haven't seen the news regarding cars driving through homes, buildings, open markets, etc. :)
     
  2. sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    You don't know my feelings on car laws or things regarding cars because that's not the topic.
     
  3. RunnerFL

    RunnerFL Well-Known Member

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    You're right, they aren't similar. Cars are far more deadly.
     
  4. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Let's be fair here... I'm not really talking about gun control.

    I'm talking about people control.

    Seriously, no joke.

    The guns aren't the problem... people are... some moreso than others... and if we can keep guns out of the hands of some of the problem people, then it is worth it.
     
  5. trh

    trh This Space for Sale

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    The shooter in CO spent minutes with guns and killed 12 people. He's been driving a car for eight years and didn't kill a single person.

    In order to compare guns to cars, you have to have some common factor. Until then the stats can't be compared (and mean anything).
     
  6. BattleScott

    BattleScott Hall Of Fame

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    Cars were brought in to validate the licensing concept.

    Strangely, the comparison was not objected to at that time.
     
  7. trh

    trh This Space for Sale

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    I wasn't commenting on the licensing, but on these comments:

     
  8. RunnerFL

    RunnerFL Well-Known Member

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    Ok, here's your facts...

    Let's take 2005 and 2006 for example, because they are the most reliable stats I can find. In 2005 and 2006 roughly 10,000 people were killed by guns according to this source who got their info from the FBI.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/10/gun-crime-us-state

    Now when it comes to cars 43,510 people were killed by automobiles in 2005 and 42,642 were killed by automobiles in 2006.

    http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/810791.pdf

    It's safe to say four times the amount of people killed by guns are killed by automobiles.

    I stand by what I said. Cars are far more deadly.

    Based on the stats provided you can even say there are far more people killed by cars than are murdered, period. That's regardless of the type of weapon.
     
  9. BattleScott

    BattleScott Hall Of Fame

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    That's my point. It was OK to compare the 2 things in an "anti-gun manner" but the converse is not acceptable.
     
  10. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    The same can be said for gun use. Legal or not, it is happening.

    That doesn't mean we should just give up and let irresponsible gun ownership happen. Or let each individual decide whether their ownership is responsible or not.
     
  11. trh

    trh This Space for Sale

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    I don't dispute that more people are killed by cars in the US than guns. But that is because there are more cars in use and more people in cars everyday (including passengers) than there are people using guns.

    Maybe if there were the same number of guns in the US as cars and being used the same amount, you might be able to make a comparison. But I don't think you really can.

    And most car related deaths are accidents. Most gun related deaths are intentional.
     
  12. MysteryMan

    MysteryMan Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    Right on Stewart. Criminal control, not gun control. There are roughly 22,000 gun control laws on the books in the U.S. Honestly, how effective have they been? Until the type of technology exists as seen in Minority Report and Person of Interest the problem with the human factor will continue.
     
  13. runner861

    runner861 Icon

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    Some crimes are committed with assault weapons, most gun-related crime is not.

    Contrary to what many like to say, many, many crimes are committed with legally owned weapons. I'm personally familiar with many crimes committed by the legal gun owner. Yes, personally familiar, not reading about it in the paper. Crimes are committed with guns legally owned--a lot. Just look at Aurora.

    As far as the multi-cultural argument, it doesn't hold water. Most crimes are committed by a person in one culture against another person in that same culture. Some crimes are cross-cultural.
     
  14. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I believe your unsourced facts are incorrect. Perhaps you have done more research than us so please, tell us the date that the shooter first drove. Are you absolutely sure it has been eight years or are you just guessing?

    I believe we have enough evidence that he owned or possessed a gun and bullets for more than a few minutes. He did not find a cache of weaponry outside of the theater and spend his first few minutes with guns killing people. The Colorado shooter obviously spent more than a few minutes with a gun.
     
  15. MysteryMan

    MysteryMan Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    As I just stated in post #592 there are roughly 22,000 gun control laws on the books which havn't done very much in solving the problem yet some people want more gun control laws. That kind of fits the definition of insanity (Repeatedly doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result each time.) Better to focus on criminal control.
     
  16. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Solving? Those laws have gone a long way toward saving lives and getting unnecessary weapons out of people's hands. It is progress.

    This attitude of "we can't solve the problem so why bother trying anything" is dangerous. I saw a car speeding yesterday - obviously the speed limit sign wasn't working so why not remove ALL speed limit signs and speed limits and let people figure out for themselves what is safe? I saw a kid not restrained in a car seat. Obviously the laws are not working so let is abolish those laws too. I also saw a person driving without their seat belt. Another ineffective law to abolish?

    I'm sure some of the "any gun any time" pro gun people would also be completely against those motor vehicle laws as well and would like to see them abolished. Do you support people using their 2nd amendment right to bear arms to protect themselves against a traffic ticket? It has been stated in this thread that citizens need to bear arms to protect themselves against unreasonable actions by the government - if speed limits, child restraint and seat belt laws are unreasonable why not use a gun to protect oneself from getting a ticket? Sound sane to you?

    Taken to the logical extreme "any gun any time" is not a good policy. Some line needs to be drawn.

    Perhaps we cannot prevent every mass killing ... but why not try to prevent the ones that can be prevented?
     
  17. BattleScott

    BattleScott Hall Of Fame

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    Because you want to solve the traffic problems by taking cars away from all drivers, not by addressing driving behavior with problem drivers.
     
  18. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Excuse me, but have you actually ASKED my opinion as to what I want to do? Assuming that I want to "take away all the guns" is a completely false assumption.

    Perhaps you should ASK instead of posting false statements.
     
  19. sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    That's one of the NRA and pro gun peoples biggest tactics... They make it appear that anyone who wants any gun regulations is really trying to take away their guns. They even rally behind it with that "pry it out of my cold dead hands" rhetoric.

    Gun control DOES NOT equal taking away the populations guns.
     
  20. BattleScott

    BattleScott Hall Of Fame

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    I appologize if you took the statement as literal assertion of what you personally want. Your posts are fairly middle of the road, but to me anyways, they seem to lean more towards the idea that more gun restrictions are needed. So it was addressed to the "collective you", meaning pro-control expansion.
     

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