1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Press Release - DISH Introduces Hopper and Joey

Discussion in 'Hopper System Support Forum' started by Jason Nipp, Jan 9, 2012.

  1. jeffdb27

    jeffdb27 AllStar

    99
    0
    Jul 13, 2007
    So will the picture quality / file size be the same when shows are extracted out of the PTAT recording? I mean, are they sacrificing quality to do this or is it just a different delivery method of the same eventual stream?

    Thanks.
     
  2. VDP07

    VDP07 Godfather

    484
    1
    Feb 22, 2006
    Contact Dish or a Dish retailer and they will let you know. The overwhelming majority of my customers fall in the A or B category. YMMV.
     
  3. TomCat

    TomCat Broadcast Engineer

    4,153
    100
    Aug 31, 2002
    Other than them moving your big 4 channels to the same transponder (and only if necessary) nothing changes on the transmit end, so no change is made to the bit rate and quality. The tuner is already wide enough to accept the combined bit rate of the entire stream, and your HDD can already handle a stream that big as well.

    The difference is in where the signals are separated out, either at record or at playback. The demux stage just separates the signals, and does not compromise bit rate or quality either.

    But, for instance, if you are only interested in keeping Alcatraz out of the four programs recorded at the time that airs, the recorded file still holds all 4 and will take up 4 times the space on the PTAT partition (but 8 days is about 500 GB, so there is room).

    If you want to keep the program longer, the DVR has to stream the entire file in the background to the demux which separates out the program you want, ignores the rest, and copies that part of the file into a separate location on the user partition, where it takes up the same amount of room it would take if you had originally recorded it on a conventional DVR; and again, this does not compromise quality either.
     
  4. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

    21,598
    143
    Jul 25, 2002
    W.Mdtrn Sea
    Put it simple - the Hopper 2000 will record whole ( partial - only 'big four' PIDs - no one know for now) mux of programs as is and later will play one particular show per your/Joye request.

    How it's done by FW ? You can see posted speculations, it wasn't technical how-to.
     
  5. jeffdb27

    jeffdb27 AllStar

    99
    0
    Jul 13, 2007
    Awesome and thanks. That's kind of what I figured.

    Is the eight-day PTAT "buffer" configurable? Can I, for example, say I just want to keep everything for three days? Or maybe its Friday, and I want to delete just the previous Tuesday's block early, possible?

    Thanks again.
     
  6. jeffdb27

    jeffdb27 AllStar

    99
    0
    Jul 13, 2007
    I've always owned all of my DISH receivers. I'll probably have to bite the bullet and lease these when they come out.

    1. Will it be possible to purchase the Hoppers and Joeys outright? I know this problaby doesn't make sense financially, but for the sake of arguement, can it be done?

    2 Will it be possible to do a do-it-yourself install? I've never needed an installer's help before, and can't see why I would now.

    Thanks.
     
  7. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

    21,598
    143
    Jul 25, 2002
    W.Mdtrn Sea
    If you will pay MSRP $500 for hopper and who knows for each joye you could install by yourself; other way - no self install.

    PTA could be On or OFF. Not possible to customize for now. Hard coded to 8 days.
     
  8. TomCat

    TomCat Broadcast Engineer

    4,153
    100
    Aug 31, 2002
    Playback paths never, on any DVR or STB, access the tuners directly. The tuner has one job, which is to accept the L-band carrier it is tuned to, and pass that signal on to the demod, which converts the signal to baseband (there may also be an IF stage). From there it goes to demux, and from there to the HDD or playout path (HDD then demux for Hopper).

    So whether a DVR can pass multiple programs to multiple playout paths at the same time is based entirely on how sophisticated the demux is and how it is programmed. Theoretically, individual streams can be routed to individual paths, but of course in this case only if they programmed it that way. Since the Hopper does not demux at receive, but at playback, it is unlikely that it can demux the signals for live viewing also.

    Think of it this way; if the demux could output separate paths for the 4 programs and was early in the chain like a conventional DVR instead of later in the chain at playback, there is no reason why they could not each be recorded to the HDD separately. It appears that they are not, so that does not bode well for the opportunity to feed these signals live to separate client boxes. Since you can simply start playback and watch "virtually" live, it really does not matter.
     
  9. TomCat

    TomCat Broadcast Engineer

    4,153
    100
    Aug 31, 2002
    Since the only real technical change is in how the DVR works internally, there is no technical hurdle making installation any more difficult. You could swap them easily. But there is a paradigm shift in how folks would interface with the new DVRs, so there may be some customer training in order. Limiting them to pro installs gives them the platform to accomplish this training at the same time, and so my best guess would-be that this is how they will do that.
     
  10. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    45,305
    913
    Apr 17, 2003
    Michiana
    All current DISH DVRs play back from a live buffer - it may say "live" when one catches up to the end of the buffer but it isn't as live as the signal on a non-DVR, which is not written to a hard drive before being read from the hard drive and displayed.

    The process of recording TV, whether scheduled events or whatever channels are selected at the moment by the user (or were last selected), writes data somewhere on the hard drive. The process of watching TV is pulling data from the hard drive. It doesn't matter if that data was written a second ago or years ago, the viewing process doesn't change.

    Every receiver is designed with tuners that are controlled by software. The tuner presents one transponder's worth of data to the receiver where multiple streams of data are pulled out to provide audio and video streams as well as encryption information, EPG and a lot of control data. On a traditional DVR the selected audio and video streams are spooled to the hard drive for later viewing (one second later or years later, all viewing on a DVR is later). On a non-DVR the audio and video streams are not spooled to a hard drive.

    DISH receivers with "two satellite tuners" are designed where the receiver can point one tuner at one transponder and a second tuner at the same transponder or any other transponder available on the switch. PTA receivers are designed with a third tuner that can be pointed at the same transponder as either (or both) of the first two tuners or (during prime time with PTA active) the third tuner points at the transponder where that market's local stations reside.

    On a traditional DVR when I record my NBC affiliate and CBS affiliate at the same time I am using both "tuners", even though both affiliates are on the same transponder.
     
  11. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

    21,598
    143
    Jul 25, 2002
    W.Mdtrn Sea
    I would say - 'could', but normally signal to TV(s) coming directly from video/audio decompression engines inside of 'CPU' if you are not using DVR keys (pause, etc).
    Remember: dish (not DTV) DVRs can works OK without a drive.
     
  12. DoyleS

    DoyleS Icon

    1,025
    4
    Oct 21, 2002
    El Dorado...
    So, how do the OTA tuners interface with the Hopper? Are they mounted internally, thus providing an additional F connector for the OTA antenna? I may have missed this in the threads. From the pictures, there is only one F connector that connects to the Distribution link and this must be a bi-directional coax connection for SAT signals coming into the Hopper and going back out as MOCA to the Joeys.
     
  13. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    45,305
    913
    Apr 17, 2003
    Michiana
    I don't recall there being provision for any. Locals would be available via satellite and one would simply miss out on any uncarried subchannels and neighboring market stations that one can occasionally get via an OTA antenna.
     
  14. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

    21,598
    143
    Jul 25, 2002
    W.Mdtrn Sea
    Via USB.
     
  15. Grandude

    Grandude RichardParker II

    938
    12
    Oct 21, 2004
    We're hoping that is true. I haven't looked, are there any USB OTA tuners on the market, or in development?
     
  16. TBoneit

    TBoneit Hall Of Fame

    2,294
    7
    Jul 27, 2006
    There would be no benefit in doing what you want to do as far as i can see.

    The PTAT storage area is no accessible to the user. Only Dish can put things there.

    If you don't use PTAT the amount you can record in the user area will stay the same.
     
  17. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

    21,598
    143
    Jul 25, 2002
    W.Mdtrn Sea
    Funny... these USB OTA stick/small boxes selling everywhere ...
     
  18. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    21,575
    373
    Jan 7, 2005
    Kittrell, NC
    I've seen several models of USB tuners... the question, though, is which one Dish will support. They famously only support one specific WiFi USB adapter... so odds are they will probably only support one specific OTA tuner USB adapter as well.
     
  19. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

    21,598
    143
    Jul 25, 2002
    W.Mdtrn Sea
    I think it will be Sling Rose USB stick. :eek2: Nay, ti's more likely Sling device.

    Is someone heard anything about the thing?!
     
  20. kstevens

    kstevens Icon

    533
    1
    Mar 26, 2003
    This may be answered somewhere but I couldn't find it. How doe the Hopper and Joey connect? Will they need to run new lines from room to room or are they wireless?

    Thanks,

    Ken
     

Share This Page