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Pro:Idion audio delay

Discussion in 'DIRECTV Installation/MDU Discussion' started by AntAltMike, Oct 27, 2010.

  1. AntAltMike

    AntAltMike Hall Of Fame

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    I just got a call from a DirecTV commercial dealer who said he is having a lot of trouble with audio delay on Pro:Idiom programming. He has a large enough customer base that I have to consider his judgement that the audio delay problem his is observing on his Pro:Idiom systems is more widespread than the audio delays he experiences with modulated analog or with off-air HDTV to be reliable.

    But one strange thing is, he says he has seen shows where the audio is delayed during the program itself, it seems to be in sync during the commercials, and then it returns to being out of sync when the program resumes.

    Has anyone else observed excessive or chronic audio delay with Pro:Idiom systems?
     
  2. jdspencer

    jdspencer Hall Of Fame

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  3. AntAltMike

    AntAltMike Hall Of Fame

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    I'm sure they already have been. He doesn't call me until after he has checked with his vendors, looking for a solution. He often calls Pro:Idiom, Pro Idiot.
     
  4. bleggett29

    bleggett29 Legend

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    I have an idea of what Pro:Idiom is but not how it works so this may not be relevant.

    Does Pro:Idiom just decode the signal or does it also transcode it? The reason for the A/V sync issues could be because the frame rates for the program and commercial could be different and the transcode isn't taking in to account of the differing frame rates..
     
  5. AntAltMike

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    It gets it in QPSK or 8PSK, demodulates it, replaces DirecTV's proprietary encoding with its own,and then remodulates it to QAM. I believe tht process constitutes transcoding.
     
  6. hogon41

    hogon41 Cool Member

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    Are the channels local channels or national channels? What equipment is being used at the headend, Lg transcoders, Thomson Com1000 chasis? What equipment is being used to decode the Pro:Idiom signal, setup box or Pro:Idiom capable TV?
     
  7. hogon41

    hogon41 Cool Member

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  8. bigglebowski

    bigglebowski Legend

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    Weve been upgrading some existing smatv properties using pro:idiom encryption for a large hotel provider and have not seen audio sync issues. I will say that they use dishnet equipment to a floodgate server or now the BT edge qam server.

    I will say I have seen audio sync issues intermittently on my DTV HR24 as others have posted in various posts on these forums. So I wonder if its more the DTV equipment causing it then it just passes through the encryption already out of sync.

    Not to hijack the thread but wanted to get feedback from other techs who have worked with pro:idiom stuff. Is this not the biggest scam ever? Talk about unfunded mandate why in the hell are content providers so worried about protecting the content in a hotel?

    I mean dont get me wrong, installing this stuff makes ME more money but looking at it from the hotels perspective what does pro:idiom do for them? The headend is WAY more expensive, the TVs have to be pro:idiom capable, you have extra work in programming the TVs. Their monthly maintenance contracts costs more.

    So what is in it for them?
     
  9. AntAltMike

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    I don't mind the thread wandering in that direction. I remember reading a year or two ago that a couple of national hotel chains were mandating that their franchisees have four HDTV cable channels by the spring of 2010 or they'd be ex-communicated. Only the recession dissuaded those hotel chains from enforcing those edicts.

    DirecTV already allows unencrypted digital signals to be distributed in many other classes of commercial customer. I don't know what they fear. I mean, do they think that an individual will rent a hotel room just to avoid paying $5 for a licensed DVD? Do they think that blocking the availability of digital premium programming will cripple the efforts of any bootlegger, who has a product distribution system available, from obtaining or developing digitized versions of these programs through other means?

    The rate cards for hotel distribution for DirecTV and DISH both say that the hotel is buying the right to display HD programming for those basic rates, but I haven't read the current dealer contracts to see if they explicitly exclude or preclude re-encoding the analog outputs of the HD receivers, which would be much less costly using zeeTV or similar equipment. I remember that Toner Cable offered a product to do so a year or two ago, and when that product line was dropped, I was told it was because that product incorporated Dolby Digital without having negotiated a royalty agreement with Dolby. It seems to me that of that was the only reason that product was dropped, that then manufacturer of it would have produced a non-Dolby version of it, with no discernible loss in functionality because hotel TVs only use the TV's internal speakers.

    I have one, 270 unit hotel customer that would have to buy and install 270 Pro:Idiom input cards, which are listed at prices of anywhere from $43 to $80 each on the internet, in addition to the ridiculous headend cost, and the staggered pricing that gives substantially lower hardware costs to hotels that sign up long term don't help sales, because, in my opinion, any hotel would be nuts to commit to five to seven years of programming service when surely a new technology that blows the doors off Pro:Idiom will have been developed and released long before the expiration of those contracts.

    I'm afraid that in order to induce Thomason to develop Pro:Idiom and the manufacturer's of commercial TVs to incorporate Pro:Idiom input card receptivity into tem, DirecTV might have contractually obligated itself to some kind of exclusivity relationship, where it cannot dump Pro:Idiom until some established sales or time threshold has been crossed. I've heard the RCA was given a monopoly on the manufacture of the first million DirecTV receivers, and with that monopoly, they were able to get $600 per receiver for the first few years of their manufacture.
     
  10. bigglebowski

    bigglebowski Legend

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    At least in your example of the 270 units (assume thats sets not rooms) they are only having to shell out $12,000 - $22,000 for those cards. Imagine if they recently bought a set they cant put a card in? Then they are spending $200,000+ to buy all new sets. As Mike said this is all before they even do anything at the headend! They are going to have to contract with a company to put in that kind of tech to pay for it. It just seems like the ROI will take quite a bit of time to pay back.

    You mentioned DTV and Thompson, does Thompson even exist any more? The RCA brand just seemed to fall out from under itself. You cant get parts to fix their sets at all anymore. Im pretty sure P:I is a LG/Zenith technology, which they then also sell rights to Philips, Panasonic and now even Samsung.

    I was thinking the blame is with the content providers as in the channels themselves that Dish/DTV. It seems to be more of a satellite delivery thing, we can easily buy gear that will pull in OTA channels and output them as QAM in the clear. Of course it could be done with sat equipment but wont be allowed by Dish/DTV because ESPN or Discovery et al wont let them do it.

    Hell when you hook up a sat receiver to the P:I server all the video outputs go dark. So even if somebody could get into the headend room they couldnt record content off the box!

    AGAIN who the hell is going to a hotel to record TV?
     
  11. Hospitalityhdtv

    Hospitalityhdtv New Member

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    I have not seen this on our systems, what equipment is he using?
    Com100 / 200 or LG transcoders?
    Also what are they using for their Edge Qam modulator.
    We have over 20 com's installed at this point and the only thing I see on a regular basis are a few channel drop-outs.
     

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