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R15s killing my dsl?

Discussion in 'DIRECTV SD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by illushinz, Feb 28, 2006.

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  1. wishfull1

    wishfull1 Cool Member

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    Nov 21, 2005
    And I'm not beating down the R15. I like it more than the TiVo. Its a bit like the UTV. And I loved the UTV dearly.

    I've had the R15 since release. With time, it will probably get better.

    Cheers
     
  2. beakersloco

    beakersloco AllStar

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    Mar 6, 2006
    I just got satelite tv and an R15 dvr about a week ago and have dont the the problem.

    But I had a separate phone line run just for my dsl modem and I dont have to run filters on any of my phones. I have not had any issues with my DSL since getting satelite so you might want to consider getting an extra line run
     
  3. carl6

    carl6 Moderator Staff Member DBSTalk Club

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    The FCC has done a VERY poor job of enforcing rules to manufacturers on most anything over the past few years. They pretty much bend over to whatever big business wants. They don't really do any testing of their own, but rely on the data presented by the manufacturer for certification.

    Now, let there be a "wardrobe malfunction" and see them spring into action.

    Carl
     
  4. jatfill

    jatfill New Member

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    Mar 10, 2006
    I just got the R15, and have ordered a movie via remote without a phone line on, just for the record...
     
  5. Clint Lamor

    Clint Lamor Hall Of Fame

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    Yes it has something like a $10 amount or so spending limit that you can use up, once thats used you cannot purchase any further programs until it phones home and then updates itself.
     
  6. CCarncross

    CCarncross Hall Of Fame

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    Great, now you owe for a PPV that will not post to your account...Why do people pull this stuff? If you are going to order via remote, connect the phone lines...
     
  7. Wolffpack

    Wolffpack Banned User

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    I agree CC. Connect the line for one call so you pay for what you received, or keep your line disconnected and order via the Web. There is NO need to be proud of the fact you received one, two or three PPVs free. That just means the rest of us end up paying more.
     
  8. carl6

    carl6 Moderator Staff Member DBSTalk Club

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    There is some limit, either dollar or time, when it will stop allowing you to order via remote.

    Also, whenever you do connect a phone line, it will report all the ppv's it has stored.

    Carl
     
  9. morgantown

    morgantown Icon

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    There is a $ limit built into the card before it rejects new purchases. IMHO it should be much closer to 1$ than it is.
     
  10. jatfill

    jatfill New Member

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    Mar 10, 2006
    Sorry, I wasn't trying to boast or get a "freebie"; I'm actually brand new to satellite service & wasn't aware I had to connect the phone line, the installer person didn't do it. The only thing the manual said about it is in reference to the caller ID feature.

    I looked at my online statement after reading this & sure enough, I don't see any movie charges. Lesson learned ;) I don't have any problems paying for what I watch. I assumed since I haven't gotten any warnings or message about connecting a phone that it wasn't required for this model... my mistake. I've ordered like 3 movies now, I got a coupon from DirecTV for one & we just got two more this weekend.

    Aside, it does seem odd to me that this unit can update itself over the air, but requires a dialup connection in order to say "yes I want to watch a movie." :grin:

    Thanks for the info, vets... I'll be sure to connect a line to get things straightened out. Anyone have good/bad luck with those wireless phone jacks? If I could use one of those I think I could leave it connected 24/7.
     
  11. cabanaboy1977

    cabanaboy1977 Hall Of Fame

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    Just so you know the R15 only downloads off the sat it doesn't upload any info at all. That's why it needs the phone line for PPV, but I could see how someone would think that. I think D*'s going to have a lot of people that won't find that out untill the order another PPV and they hit there limit. Come to think of it that's probably why they try to charge you $20 for a new access card so people don't abuse the flaw in the system.
     
  12. Clint Lamor

    Clint Lamor Hall Of Fame

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    This is one of the main reason they need to add network support to these boxes. It would be much nicer to hook the box up to my home network and have it tell DirecTV whatever it needs to then to have a phone line hooked up to it. For one thing I use Vonage so I haven't had a land line in a LONG time.
     
  13. Wolffpack

    Wolffpack Banned User

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    So you'd open up your home firewall so the R15 has open ports to/from anything? Trusting that the DTV security folks have properly tested their software when the application folks are having a hard time getting the unit to dependably record shows is a tad risky.

    I have all of my DTivos networked but none of them can get outside the firewall and nothing can get to them from the outside.

    As soon as they open a port and a network connection, hacking (for good or bad) becomes 1000% easier.

    You can be running Windows, Linux or anything else and there are new threats discovered daily as well as new patches issued to address those threats. I don't see how any of these DTV units could ever be expected to communicate with the outside world via the internet securely.
     
  14. Clint Lamor

    Clint Lamor Hall Of Fame

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    My TiVo has been able to call outside from the day they activated Networking on. No one comes back in without something inside starting the convo as no ports are forwarded.
     
  15. Wolffpack

    Wolffpack Banned User

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    What port does your Tivo use to perform this call? What port is the return path? Do you have a cable/dsl modem with firewall capability? Is it turned on? If yes, are those ports open?

    If you're secure with a device accessing the internet without it's own software firewall that's your decision. Now version 6.2 & up (maybe 4.x also) does have a light firewall which most everyone disables when they hack the unit for local access.

    Even though your Tivo is initiating a session to the outside world, without a properly updated firewall and security system you run the risk of someone hijacking a session. I'm not saying the threat is great, but it is there. As I said, new threats are discovered every day. I continually receive updates every day or two from the various security/anti-virus programs I run.

    If DTV were to enable networking on the R15, via a USB device, maybe even wireless, are all customers going to know how to protect their R15 and other PCs inside their perimeter firewall from attacks?

    My point here is that given the current state of R15 software, given the technical level of most installers and given the technical level of most customers, I cannot believe enabling broadband access for PPV or VOD to be anything but a huge security risk.
     
  16. jatfill

    jatfill New Member

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    Mar 10, 2006
    customersupport.tivo.com/knowbase/root/public/tv2073.htm

    The Windows ports appear to be internal to your network only.

    The TiVo model is actually quite good in the network end. I had a standalone 80 hour Series 2 unit before I switched to satellite (sold it after I realized the new DTV unit I got wasn't TiVo). The out of the box configuration is telephone, for the (I agree, large) user base that isn't technical enough to do networking.

    If you have a router between you and the world, I don't believe you have to open these. The guide data isn't even mentioned in the troubleshooting page, I saw port 123 mentioned on a forums post a while back, but I never opened outside ports on my router & my unit always downloaded just fine.

    For the more technical people who know where to look, the networking option works extremely well and you get several nice extra features in the process.. streaming music and photos from your PC to your TV, transfer recordings to/from your computers, and some (not well developed yet) subscription based content pushed to your DVR on demand.

    I think there's a huge opportunity for the R15, and judging by all the USB ports on the unit, I would guess (and hope) that's exactly where they are heading.

    I would personally be completely comfortable with setting up a "least priviledge" hole into my home network to be able to free up the telephone line & maybe get some extra features in the process... more HD space, etc

    I do also agree, however.. that the engineering folks need to get it together before my comfort level would be high enough. My R15 seems to have trouble with Series Link.. only with my wife's soap operas, ironically enough. I have nicknamed it the "perfect DVR" :D If it would only quit doing Oprah now, too... lol
     
  17. Wolffpack

    Wolffpack Banned User

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    I'm kinda getting off topic here but, here's what I'm worried about:

    1) Your Tivo/R15/DVR wants to call home for some update or VOD via broadband. No problem you allow access to abc.zzz.com through your firewall.
    2) Some playful young lad (lets call him Timmy) hijacks the DNS entry for abc.zzz.com and points it to his server farm overseas in HackerHeavenstan. Once there his server does a little looking around to determine what OS your DVR maybe running and then forwards your session to another program that's chomping at the bit to try a few known security exploits for the platform your Tivo/R15/DVR is running.
    3) Bang, with a quick buffer overflow Timmy and his friends have root access to your DVR. They upload a few Trojan programs and start those running. Since your DVR is behind your firewall it has clear access to any PCs or other networked devices in your house.
    4) Timmy's other programs find their way into your PC and your kids PC via other known exploits and upload more Trojans.
    5) Before you know it all sorts of your personal info is on its way to Timmy and his friends. Next your ISP cuts you off because your IP address has been reported as a SPAMMER and has been caught in many DOS attacks on large corporations. All this because your DVR had Internet access.

    Now, is this "out there"? Sure. Does it happen? Not on DVRs yet as there are limited numbers of DVRs connected to the 'net but it does happen on PCs. One has to be very careful with networked devices that are allowed to connect to the Internet. I take the stance that I do not allow Internet access to any device I don't have complete control over. Am I paranoid? Sure! :)

    Having network access to your DVRs internally is great and I can't live without it. MRV, HMO and video streaming to my internal servers are fantastic. But external access? Too many ifs right now.
     
  18. Earl Bonovich

    Earl Bonovich Lifetime Achiever

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    But what if they don't go via DNS entries... and go via IP and port numbers.

    That are fed to the unit via the SAT stream? So if they change they are immediately updated... (basically if you want a VOD, the IP and port number for that system is part of the "guide" data for the vod)

    Don't get me wrong... I am not against protecting the systems...
     
  19. Wolffpack

    Wolffpack Banned User

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    That would definitely be an option.

    Specific IP numbers can be a problem when you're talking about a high level of traffic compared to a DNS entry pointing to a pool of servers, but that can be handled. The problem I would have though is that a changing IP/port scheme would then be blocked by my firewall. I'd setup abc.zzz.com port yy (or IP 111.222.333.444 port 55) as a permit rule for the DVR. But as soon as that changes the DVR would be blocked from the new IP/port combination.

    I know I'm more picky about this stuff than most others. But I want to see much more quality and testing in the software loaded on these units before I let them through my internet door unimpeded.

    But then you start talking about VODs. Securing that transaction between the provider and the DVR is a discussion for it's own thread. There you have to be talking VPN with keys possibly coming from the SAT after being requested via broadband. Yet would today's DVRs have the processor power or memory to efficiently handle a VPN connection? Interesting discussion there. :D
     
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