1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

RG-59 with SWiM?

Discussion in 'DIRECTV Installation/MDU Discussion' started by Cavicchi, Jun 8, 2010.

  1. Jun 12, 2010 #81 of 109
    ndole

    ndole Problem Solver

    1,915
    5
    Aug 26, 2009
    What a complete nightmare.

    It didn't have problems until you messed with it did it?

    Sin#!
     
  2. Jun 12, 2010 #82 of 109
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    42,683
    348
    Dec 9, 2006
    Yeah, you know it needed "fixing". :lol:
    The thing is, you need to actually know what you're doing to really fix something. ;)
     
  3. Jun 12, 2010 #83 of 109
    ndole

    ndole Problem Solver

    1,915
    5
    Aug 26, 2009
    If this was my customer they would have single handedly cost me about $700.00, for nothing.

    Sorry, there isn't an emoticon for hitting my face with a shovel.
     
  4. Jun 12, 2010 #84 of 109
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    42,683
    348
    Dec 9, 2006
    the closest would be: :bang

    As for the other parts of this thread: :beatdeadhorse:
     
  5. Jun 13, 2010 #85 of 109
    egnlsn

    egnlsn AllStar

    64
    0
    May 3, 2008
    Your analogy has all of the cars going the same direction. Too bad it doesn't fit in a discussion about return loss.

    If you're going to use an analogy with cars, it should be more like:
    There is a large, fixed number of cars going north down the northbound lanes of the freeway. There are also a few cars going south, also in the northbound lanes. The more cars there are going south, the higher the chances are that there will be a collision between a northbound car and a southbound car. Lower return loss increases the number of southbound cars, while higher return loss decreases the number of southbound cars.
     
  6. Jun 13, 2010 #86 of 109
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    42,683
    348
    Dec 9, 2006
    Clearly you're a network type and not RF.
    There are no "collisions" but merely reduction of the forward signal. When this reduction becomes so significant that the forward signal can't be demodulated, then there is a problem. With the DirecTV signals, this is around 10 dB above the noise, so a 20 dB return falls well within the system's performance specs.

    Perhaps a better analogy would be a river flowing down stream with a back flow [if there was such]. If the back flow was -20 dB of the forward flow, then the forward flow would be reduced by 1-10%.
     
  7. Jun 13, 2010 #87 of 109
    egnlsn

    egnlsn AllStar

    64
    0
    May 3, 2008
    It sounds like you should do some studying up on standing wave, which has been causing grief in broadband systems for decades.

    Negative on your "clearly" supposition. I've been working with r.f. much longer than networks. They both carry information from point A to point B on an r.f. carrier (or carriers), anyway.

    To quote an engineer with what used to be AT&T Broadband, "Poor return loss may result in any or all of the following:
    1. Loss of amplitude from the original signal.
    2. Micro-reflection, which can affect digital equipment.
    3. Multipath, which can add ghosting to analog pictures."
     
  8. Jun 13, 2010 #88 of 109
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    42,683
    348
    Dec 9, 2006
    Maybe a diagram would help, so we are on the same page:
    [​IMG]
    This is a poor attempt and not to scale, but:
    The large wave is the forward signal.
    The green is the refection [-20 dB return loss] of the end device.
    The red would be the -30 dB return loss of a connector.
    The operating range of the system is above/below the blue line.
    The phase changes of the returns could/would change, but not the amplitude.
    With somewhere around 30 years working with this and frequencies over 40 GHz, while I may not know everything, I've seen & done a fair amount first hand.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. Jun 13, 2010 #89 of 109
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    42,683
    348
    Dec 9, 2006
    At this point in the thread, it may be time to just let this go.
    Anyone that wants to buy the better barrel, so ahead, they're cheap.
    Whatever explanation I was trying to give, has been done. If you "get it", great. If you don't, I'm not sure there is anymore I can do. :)
     
  10. Jun 13, 2010 #90 of 109
    egnlsn

    egnlsn AllStar

    64
    0
    May 3, 2008
    Thanks for the information. ;)
     
  11. Jun 13, 2010 #91 of 109
    Cavicchi

    Cavicchi Legend

    539
    17
    Oct 28, 2008
    Effort, PA
    If there was a competent technician doing the install, there would not have been a need for me to go any further than the first visit. Any and all subsequent issues have been brought about by DTV technicians, including the present one with signal problem on one TV.

    Bottom line: If DTV had a company doing installs and service like my cable company, there would have been just one visit to install.
     
  12. Jun 13, 2010 #92 of 109
    sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

    14,599
    370
    Sep 5, 2006
    Allen, TX
    You never touched anything? :rolleyes:
     
  13. Jun 13, 2010 #93 of 109
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    42,683
    348
    Dec 9, 2006
    There are always two sides.
    One is that you leaving things alone when it's working and if you mess with it, you take responsibility.
    Another side could be that the system is setup well enough that "normal" moving of things around doesn't change anything drastically.
    My own system is more like the second.
     
  14. Jun 13, 2010 #94 of 109
    Cavicchi

    Cavicchi Legend

    539
    17
    Oct 28, 2008
    Effort, PA
    First, I was getting error messages to check cables, maybe 720 or 920, and we lost service occasionally.

    Secondly, YOU were the one who suggested I have them replace the copper clad with solid copper for cable from dish to power inserter.

    Things were not working as you seem to indicate, and they haven't been from day one. According to you, I never should have called to have them align the dish. The only responsibility involved here is from the technicians sent to my house--including the one who drilled an unnecessary hole through the floor.

    When my cable company installed their service, I didn't have to make one single call for them to come back in the entire year. When I had their service for around 10 years prior to DTV, they came and fixed whatever and never, never had to return for not doing something correct. You can blame me all you want, but the real blame goes on the installer and DTV for hiring this kind of company. The technicians that come from my cable company work for my cable company--they are not sub-contracted out--and they are aware of what it means to do the job right.
     
  15. Jun 13, 2010 #95 of 109
    joe diamond

    joe diamond Hall Of Fame

    3,071
    0
    Feb 28, 2007
    Brother Cavicchi,

    YOU are attempting to resolve a situation using true logic. That is the problem here.

    IF anything happens to make you pick up the phone to request service on your system the installer looses money.

    There is someone, probably with a Business Degree, who has been allowed to decree; "screw the installer!" Instead of somebody wanting to come out and fix your problem...all tech want to avoid your system. Any component that fails will cost the next person to arrive at your home something.

    Relax! Let some time pass. Call again.

    Joe
     
  16. Jun 13, 2010 #96 of 109
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    42,683
    348
    Dec 9, 2006
    I post two sides and you jump all over me?
    Guess there was no side I could post that wasn't going to be "my fault".
    Reread my post and pick one. :nono:
     
  17. Jun 13, 2010 #97 of 109
    Cavicchi

    Cavicchi Legend

    539
    17
    Oct 28, 2008
    Effort, PA
    Well, I had to call again because TV upstairs is losing signal, and the supervisor that connected TV downstairs from wall to HR24 has it so I cannot remove the connection at the wall; in other words, there is no connector sticking out from wall and unable to "unscrew" it--looks like he connected both cables with "connector" inside wall.

    I have 30 days of free service--if I wait beyond that period, they say I have to pay for someone to come over. Now, DTV has been wonderful in trying to get all my issues resolved. In fact, when I call, they send my complaint to a case manager who calls me back and sets up service with installer--DTV wants to know what is going on! Also, the case manager gave me his direct line and a pin number to get through.

    I am relaxed, and I look forward to tomorrow when another technician comes over to fix what the last technician did, and the saga continues...
     
  18. Jun 13, 2010 #98 of 109
    john18

    john18 Active Member

    1,035
    11
    Nov 21, 2006
    Hang in there. This will be behind you soon.
     
  19. Jun 13, 2010 #99 of 109
    ndole

    ndole Problem Solver

    1,915
    5
    Aug 26, 2009
    [​IMG]
     
  20. Cavicchi

    Cavicchi Legend

    539
    17
    Oct 28, 2008
    Effort, PA
    Hopefully it is now behind me. The technician came over and found problem with signal was caused by faulty connector in wall, which was likely damaged by the technician making conductor pin too long. So, this technician replaced the connector and also cut a new plug on the cable going to wall.

    Everything seems to be fine now, though we haven't done extensive testing. Still, I am confident the whole mess is over. I did receive a call from installer company asking me how things are, which was a nice touch, and said I should call if there any further issues. The technician who came today normally services my area and he left his cell phone number.

    I do have to wait until the new TV for LR arrives later this week to find out about LR TV; there is no TV hooked up in LR at this time--technician did change barrel connector and replaced cable from SWiM to HR24. We moved LR TV upstairs and recycled old CRT upstairs--all this was done over a week ago. I was supposed to get new TV last Friday, but living in "remote area" means delivery is only on Thursdays.
     

Share This Page