1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

SCFAPA 2007 - One way to replace SHVERA etc

Discussion in 'Legislative and Regulatory Issues' started by rec9140, Jan 6, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Jan 6, 2007 #1 of 59
    rec9140

    rec9140 Cool Member

    18
    0
    Dec 22, 2006
    Thats why I have a bounty out on the NAB and the dinocasters.


    NO THANK YOU! :nono: :nono: :nono: on tivcrapo I don't want anything to do with their sell out device and software. Even if it means Dish loses their PVR. No thanks!




    I am still working on the specifics but the whole idea is the creation of the

    Satellite Consuer Fair Access and Protection Act of 2007.

    Goal: Fix the mess that SHVA, SHIVA, SHERVA and Title 17 have all created.

    First, everyone needs to stop looking at "locals" and "affilaites" and look at NETWORKS..... NBC, ABC, CBS etc... You hit the nail on the head its a waste of limited resources to send 100's of duplicate signals of the same stuff via DBS. So lets stop....

    I am still working on the specifics but what I am seeking in the SCFAPA 2007 is basically:

    1) Dish is PERMITTED to offer ANY AND ALL TAKERS a set of 8 national feed channels for the networks. Till such time as the networks choose to get on board and feed Dish these channels direct the DBS carrier will be permitted to select one source of each network in the Eastern and Western time zones. NOPE, no argument from the source chosen. If its LA, NY, Podunk or Hooterville, thats the DBS carriers choice.

    2) Those who subscribe to the network package will pay a NAB & Affiliates Extorion Fee and Tax and it will be worded and label exactly that way and for what it is. Say $2.00/month, thats works out to $0.25/month per channel. This fee will be paid to the NAB to divide to the dinocasters in the manner they decide.

    3) The NAB will be told only the following that you have 300 subs of the network package for zipcode 12345. Thats it, nothing more. If the NAB wants to divide it up so that WDNO (fictitous) gets 300 X $0.25 (or whatever) for the subs in their DMA, fine. If its another formula fine, too. Thats between the NAB and the dinocasters. They can squabble how the pie is divided on their end. The CONSUMER has paid the cost for them.

    4) No waivers, no testing, no grade a, grade b, white areas, unserved or served. Everyone can sign up. Thats why #3. The idea is simple this is simply about "alleged" loss of monies from viewers not watching x dinocaster so their ad revenue is down......Oh puhlease.... ADS who watches the ads! PVR and the remote killed the ad along time ago. So heres your money, shut up.

    5) A time line is setup for the ELIMINIATION of Part 73 Television. Guess who just wasted a ton of money on ATSC upgrdes.... SUCKERS.

    6) There is no elimination of LIL, if the DBS carriers want to waste technology and space on LIL, fine. Thats their choice, I am just after getting whats needed for the future and thats not LIL.

    7) Part 73 is modified so that all stations have zero say in DBS or crapble carrying their signal if they choose to. So no more retrans disputes ala Sinclair currently. Basically Part 73 would mandate that you if you broadcast it and if another service like DBS picks it up and sends its along to its subs, so be it!

    8) An incentive and timeline to encourage the networks to shove the dinocasters out!

    9) The nonsense on ATSC signals not being allowed to carry differing time zones is wiped away.. ie: W zone getting an E feed, and E getting a W feed. Makes it compatible with the present system. Allow for HD feeds of networks if the DBS carrier wants.

    10) Permit DBS to take an ATSC signal convert to non ATSC and send this along. So that when 2009 rolls around (if it actually takes place) when ATSC is the only source and the networks still haven't gotten the hint DBS can convert to continue network feeds in their present form.

    NOTE: Don't confuse the transmission method of DBS with the method the source may be transmitted in, ie: OTA ATSC, OTA NTSC, DBS DVB-S, DBS DSS etc.. The above is simply to allow an ATSC source to be converted to video and sent as a NON HD or SD signal (SD is NOT EQUIVALENT to NTSC ANALOG) in the transmission mode of the carrier ie: DVB-S for DISH DBS-DSS for direcrap, QAM for crapble.

    11) All the syndex and other crap is tossed out! Its 2007 and none of it applies. Other than a few of the afternoon hormone shows very few dinocasters show reruns or the same syndicated programming like they did. Most have crapcasts, err, newscast (whatever) that start at 4 or 5PM and run till the network national news starts. Then some more fluff and filler for from 7 to 8PM. Most is mostly "entertainment news" or a few other select shows like Wheel and Jeporady (I can remember when these were on in the DAYTIME and you went shopping on Wheel!)

    The dinocasters have shown they have no respect for the consumer in the marketplace so its time to get rid of them!
     
  2. Jan 6, 2007 #2 of 59
    kenglish

    kenglish Icon

    973
    2
    Oct 2, 2004
    Salt Lake...
    Why stop with Broadcasters? We should eliminate ALL business-based laws.

    Why should someone who makes a product be allowed to charge money for it? Why should WalMart be allowed to stop shoplifters? Why can't I just copy magazines, newspapers, Cds and DVDs and sell them on e-bay?

    God gave us the earth and it's "bounty"....why should I have to pay the grocer for what originally came from the Earth? :)
     
  3. Jan 6, 2007 #3 of 59
    La Push Commercial Codman

    La Push Commercial Codman Banned User

    187
    0
    Jan 4, 2007
    As for many months, I saw disappointing blows to Dish Network, wanting to provide distant networks with General Delivery. The Broadcasters got upset, and took it to court. Almost 1/2 million Dish subs had distant networks until judge applied a injunction, once that happened. Everybody lost there distants and Charlie Ergen had to get together with Rick Mountfield to provide distants thru NPS. Now we see the broadcasters crying foul play.. The broadcasters our even crying foul play with video on demand. Even the general manager at KERO TV 23 is crying foul play over distants and video on demand. Craig Jahelka of KERO TV 23 back fired and talk to David K . Rehr, Why I know this because, They did. they our throwing a hissy fit.. CBS IS GOING BACK TO GAME SHOWS AND MY DRAMA SHOW CSI is going to be pulled. ALL THESE NETWORKS ABC, NBC, CBS, AND FOX our in for local corperate bucks, $$$BIG$$$BUCKS$$$. They have no mercy for owners with video on demand DVR'S. And if so, wait until dinocaster drives us and DISH INTO THE GROUND.. It's National Association of Broadcaster's David K. Rehr and Dennis Wharton pushing there localism crap.. They have been in favor of congress pushing to pass the COPYRIGHT MODERNIZATION ACT OF 2006, so Internet on demand, video on demand, satellite radio and satellite tv be regulated. David K. Rehr of National Association of Broadcasters wanted a protection act passed to prohibit out of market media service, to protect local hd-radio and hd - tv, from out of market source. David K. Rehr has got congress convinced, that protecting local hd operation means doomsday for satellite radio and satellite tv. It won't be easy to pass legislation, and if we can convince democrats in the house and the senate, what major victor we may have. Nearly 3% of the 260 million people our receiving satellite radio. We definitely should allow choice. Sinclair broadcaster, replied on a email, saying they will not agree to a contract with mediacom. Hooray, Advantage DISH NETWORK, USING WASTED BANDWIDTH.. A double wammy and January 1st, 2009 coming, when you end up broadcasting hi definition in un-known digital format MPEG 2 WITH A MPEG 4 UNIT.. Cable tv is to crappy, hdtv viewers can see. My hd set with mpeg feature with dish looks good to super good. I do agree, the protection act must be passed for satellite tv, and I hope it happens. If it doesn't happen, our prices will continue to go up to pay for those extra echostar satellite dish network is trying to get permission for to broadcast wasted hd bandwidth at 61.7 W.L. AND other news hd satellite locations., since broadcaster's our to dumb founded to think. MY DISH NETWORK GOING TO PUT, ALL ON ACCOUNT OF FEDERAL DUMB FOUNDED LEGISLATION. I do believe legislators will have a hard time passing legislation since XM AND SIRIUS has the satellite radio protect still in affect..

    What DISH NETWORK need's to do, is allow there dvr hd-mpeg 4 unit's pick up off air A.T.S.C. hd channels, atleast, we keep DAVID K. REHR and N.A.B. off our A.S.S.:mad: And if you look at the percentage of where the retransmission of hdtv station need to be carried, YOU ELLIMINATE BIG MARKETS LIKE NEW YORK. If every area is prone to picking up hi definition signal, then we consider, what markets. The ones for retransmission for hi def. Definitely Colorado, Washington state, California, Oregon, Nevada, Montana, and a small percentage of the east coast like New york maybe, be of Lake Placid, a mountain region. Dish Network need's a survey on hd locals.. As for R.V. hd distants, it has to be Atlanta and San Francisco hd locals. If every square mile picks up local hd, no pressure on E*
     
  4. Jan 7, 2007 #4 of 59
    Greg Bimson

    Greg Bimson Hall Of Fame

    3,918
    0
    May 5, 2003
    I read the original post, and think....

    Welcome to the Soviet States of America. How many Communists and/or Socialists have to be in Congress before a law like this is passed?
     
  5. Jan 7, 2007 #5 of 59
    kenglish

    kenglish Icon

    973
    2
    Oct 2, 2004
    Salt Lake...
    I guess this all makes sense to someone :confused: .
     
  6. Jan 7, 2007 #6 of 59
    La Push Commercial Codman

    La Push Commercial Codman Banned User

    187
    0
    Jan 4, 2007
    :)
    I felt that possible, Because N.A.B. and David K. Rehr believe in localism and more, so xm satellite radio had it problems digesting those possible regulations. I can't say copy right modernization be a problem. I sure believe National Association of Broadcasters support it, and Recording Industry Association of America supports Copy Right Modernization. WWW.XMRADIO.COM/GRASSROOTS is feeling music channels are in trouble, and again what we pay for is be taken away from us. Yea, but will Copy Right modernization affect satellite radio, and satellite tv? Leave us out of the equator, and oh boy, is N.A.B. David K. Rehr SAYING 260 MILLION LOCAL VIEWERS AND LISTENERS. This number changed to 300 million locals viewers and listeners, Which makes me wonder what were they doing with O.T.A.R.D. in November 2006. I couldn't find the site with my limited time. 3% is a small number who subscribed to xm or Sirius among N.A.B. 260 MILLION PEOPLE in U.S.A.. In 2004 in May 12th, about 25 U.S. House reps 14 republicans and 11 democrats support satellite listener act 2004, Which would prohibit satellite radio in markets, which went dead in the House of Rep. House Rep republican Mr. Green introduced legislation which failed, and If they passed it, they you deny rights and violate the protection act to satellite radio. Congress passed legislation to protect satellite radio, from N.A.B. and David K. Rehr attacks. Satellite tv needs protection to video on demand and all programing including distant networks. DISH NETWORKS- NPS provider needs protection too. I can't say, this broadcasters can throw a hissy fits, we know big corperation is digging satellite tv into the ground and they rather not be dealing with rude people. I can live without networks for there greed in our country..

    I finished watching 3 1/2 hours of commercial free Criminial minds from my D.V.R. v.o.d. unit. Know I will watch 40 minutes of fox Prison Break. I can't assume broadcasters are losing revenue on TV, and the broadcaster can not assume, I will not buy there product. Granite Broadcasting filed brankruptcy, and when you see that happen, I bet broadcaster will go hunting on Video On Demand. The broadcasters would be wasting my time, with there stupid ads, like select Budweiser... I have no mercy for corperation, but if trouble is coming, then video on demand D.V.R. is something that some day might need a waiver for permission, or there slap a $5.99 fee for DVR, then slap a $10.00 a month fee all to corperates, ABC,NBC, CBS, AND FOX. Yea, it's a soviet thing to say, but sure enough N.A.B. certaintly became a problem over V.O.D. when Edward O. Fritz was N.A.B. pres. in 2001 years. You think Kris Roberts, and Dennis Wharton Know? Don't ask them?:)
     
  7. Jan 7, 2007 #7 of 59
    La Push Commercial Codman

    La Push Commercial Codman Banned User

    187
    0
    Jan 4, 2007
    xm grassroot's is down.
     
  8. Jan 7, 2007 #8 of 59
    FTA Michael

    FTA Michael Hall Of Fame

    3,474
    4
    Jul 21, 2002
    Companies and other organizations use public airwaves to distribute original or third-party content. Such an arrangement necessarily includes government involvement. The government, which represents content owners, broadcasters, viewers, and everyone else, should create rules that properly balance the interests of all parties for the greater public good.

    If someone says that they want access to all OTA broadcasts, they're effectively saying that if it's free for some viewers, maybe it should be free for all viewers. There may be holes in that idea, but it is unhelpful and inflammatory to simply suggest that the concept is Soviet, Communist, or Socialist. It is also unhelpful and inflammatory to suggest that such an idea is equal to stealing from stores.

    Describing how a particular idea would be unfair to one or more parties is a good way to refute an argument. Slapping labels on an idea doesn't do anyone any good.
     
  9. Jan 7, 2007 #9 of 59
    rec9140

    rec9140 Cool Member

    18
    0
    Dec 22, 2006
    I fail to see the parallels or comparisons, nor the humor.

    Video broadcasting via TERRESTIAL means is outdated and no longer needed. That means bye bye affiliates..... That fact that the nets have not done this already amazes me. I am sure they've very discretly ran the numbers on how much they could rake in minus the affiliates.

    FACT: 85% of the US consumer gets the TV source from something OTHER THAN OTA.

    Terrestial video broadcasting has run its course. Time to move on... Just like in the movie Other Peoples Money....."...I am sure the last buggy whip maker made the best damn buggy whip....." Its over for OTA. ATSC is a band aid and a poor one at that compared to the DVB-T standard and a kludge.
     
  10. rec9140

    rec9140 Cool Member

    18
    0
    Dec 22, 2006
    While I am not after any one loosing programming they want to see, IF the networks were direct feeding the DBS and crapble then this wouldn't be an issue.

    While you may not see it as wasted bandwidth if your effected, the LIL system is a huge kludge to appease one faction, NAB and their members the dinocasters. 100x the channels to accomplish what 8 would.

    If Part 73 and Title 17 are modified all these squabbles go away, till the end of the terrestial broadcasting comes about. Basically they would be REQUIRED to allow DBS or crapble to pick up the OTA signal and provide to their subs. Title 17 would set a reasonable rate to be paid, which while I am totally against the idea of them getting one red cent, its just not going to fly till some one gets "greased."

    The broadcasters are LICENSED to UTILIZE a LIMITED PUBLIC RESOURCE, thus they need to be held to certain standards. Thats why all the kiddie filler rules etc..

    You want to make the NAB gang really flip out. Start filing letters with the FCC each and every time one of your local dinocasters license comes up for renewal. Trust me the FCC looks very closely at the public letter(s) in a stations file when renewal time comes. Enough letters and things just don't get rubber stamped thru. The LAST THING a station wants is ANY COMPLAINT LETTERS in its file.

    No, this is EXACTLY what they SHOULD NOT do! This only helps to continue terrestial broadcasting.

    The whole reason this is occuring and the NAB's "localism" approach is they know they are headed to extinction.

    Plus that means that people have to put up either an OTA antenna or sub to crapble. I have no issues with antennas, but some people (HOA zealots, etc.) have huge issues with this. While the OTARD ruling null and voids their nonsense it plays and panders to the dinocasters and I want nothing to do with crapble other than their internet service since DSL and fiber (not yet anyway) is not available.

    SCFAPA's only goal is to allow persons to get networks period and clean up the mess we have now.
     
  11. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    45,320
    914
    Apr 17, 2003
    Michiana
    Ah, yet another "free market" approach to "the problem" - not.

    Broadcast networks set up a system (before satellite) of distribution to the end viewer that included territorial rights. That system is still in place. Perhaps some progressive network will rewrite its contracts and allow a national satellite channel along with as the 'exclusive' agreements with affiliates, but that makes their network less valuable as something to sell to affiliates. Most local broadcasters are not looking to rebroadcast a cable or satellite channel - they are looking for exclusive content that they can in turn sell to their advertisers.

    Your suggestion is to have the government interfere in that private arrangement. There are protections in place to make sure one company doesn't get to much control of media. You seem to want to throw away that protection (granting networks control of media in all markets) as well as hurt every local affiliate in the country. Not good.

    And your further suggestion to end terrestrial broadcasting is so far off the wall that it barely deserves a comment. Lets close every shoe store in the country so the mail order Zapatos can have an exclusive. Nahhh.
    The FCC knows the difference between a valid complaint and fluff. (See the indecency complaints and how those are handled.) Plenty of stations get renewed with garbage in their file. Only VALID complaints, generally filed with clear legal descriptions and no off the wall statements ("this violates 'RICO' " would not be a valid statement) will get considered.

    Find an example of ONE station that didn't get renewed because of complaint letters from viewers. Then look hard at those letters. If such non-renewal has ever occurred you can bet that the letters were not fluffy.
     
  12. HIPAR

    HIPAR Icon

    749
    0
    May 15, 2005
    Wow.. I'm trying to decipher all of this. Are you all saying the hodge podge of regulations is in place to serve the interests of local broadcasters and are thus unnecessary because over the air broadcasting is becoming a thing of the past?

    Seems they will be on the air for the foreseeable future; I haven't heard about any stations relinquishing their TV broadcasting licenses.

    --- CHAS
     
  13. La Push Commercial Codman

    La Push Commercial Codman Banned User

    187
    0
    Jan 4, 2007
    The broadcasters have taken too much away. Look at xm satellite radio, you can listen to a live broadcast of sean Hannity on xm satellite radio. Yes, I was testing everybody to questions. It would be good to allow choice for everyone. Atleast bills get paid for the satellites And start broadcasting in Hi definition, since anolog is ghosting. Atleast a MPEG-2 broadcast isn't as bad a MPEG-4 broadcast. What get's me is Mission: Impossible is on KDOC UHF CH 56, AND HDCH.56-1. Instead broadcast KDOC HDCH instead of uhf, but no they can't. Yea, I see our chances look better. Just hope, I get Seattle, Washington station back. I spend my Summers in a ksanami enviroment, tidal wave, highly in Callam Bay County, near Folks.. Yea, scarey.. I have to spend one summer with no Seattle station, KOMO, KIRO, KING station. Have to settle for San Francisco-Atlanta, in R.V.. In 2005 Summer, We had to evacuate because local seattle station flash a ksanami alert. Didn't happen. Turn satellite radio news on no report of it. Turn VHF MARINE RADIO ON IN TRUCK TO VHF CH 22 Bravo. Got the report. Won't have Seattle this summer, so not good.. Congress would not love to hear this story, But I bet they do. They read our complaints..
     
  14. La Push Commercial Codman

    La Push Commercial Codman Banned User

    187
    0
    Jan 4, 2007
    What has satellite radio do? Broadcast live talkshow conveniently. satellite radio is awsome. It provide commercial free music, nice. satellite radio provide talk radio. Live shows, like the G-man, G Gordon Liddy live on xm radio. Nice. The thing about it is the federal government decided not to pick on satellite radio. They love to, but haven't they picked on us enough. Bills have gone dead. Thank for VIDEO ON DEMAND AND satellite radio, we have confused the lobbyist. There cry Mama. And David K Rehr-national Association of Broadcaster should shut-up. ALL OF YOU GUYS ARE RIGHT, WE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO RECEIVE WHAT EVER CITY WE WANT, AND AS MANY. Charlie Ergen feelings were hurt by David Pinnocho Rehr, A Dingle Berry..
     
  15. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    45,320
    914
    Apr 17, 2003
    Michiana
    Satellite radio has it's place. So far not a big place, but they are growing.

    For now the FCC is leaving satellite out of the content rules because it is a subscription service with tools in place for locking out content and other "parental controls". One does not have to worry about the five year old "learning new words" or "growing up too fast" by accidentally tuning to XM the way they could accidentally find an OTA radio or TV signal. If the kid trips over something on XM, SIRIUS or a subscription cable or satellite TV service it is something the parents choose to allow into the home (or car).

    At the moment no one is asking for all local broadcasting to go away so that XM and SIRIUS can take over. Then again, radio is not syndicated in the same way as TV. We have four major commercial TV networks, PBS and several smaller networks (including The CW and MyTV). On the radio side there are dozens of content providers --- even just for national talk programs there are MANY sources for someone to ask the compelling questions. While some programs (such as Rush) are popular enough that it seems some station in every market will pick up the program and carry it there are very few full form radio networks where every station in every market carries every program (unless the station is owned by the network).

    What does this have to do with local TV stations getting their licenses renewed? Very little. But you did bring it up.
     
  16. Greg Bimson

    Greg Bimson Hall Of Fame

    3,918
    0
    May 5, 2003
    FACT: The big four networks own affiliates that reach over 20 percent of the nation's households. They have a vested interest to keep the status quo...

    Everyone that "loves" network programming wants to create a law to destroy the very networks they wish to get.

    FACT: If terrestrial video is so outdated, why in the world is everyone investing in a second set of transmitters and cameras, for the HD revolution? Because even if the technology is from the 1950's, it is still applicable to the modern day.
    Fine. BUY an antenna and get what you can with your television tuner. To purchase a copy the programming from another party requires the approval of the original party.

    Nothing more, nothing less. Otherwise, any attempt to change the legislation which allows the government to basically seize the copyrights of any content broadcasting over the airwaves is SOCIALIST.
     
  17. kenglish

    kenglish Icon

    973
    2
    Oct 2, 2004
    Salt Lake...
    "FACT: 85% of the US consumer gets the TV source from something OTHER THAN OTA.

    Terrestial video broadcasting has run its course. Time to move on... Just like in the movie Other Peoples Money....."...I am sure the last buggy whip maker made the best damn buggy whip....." Its over for OTA. ATSC is a band aid and a poor one at that compared to the DVB-T standard and a kludge."

    But, the programming that is being watched on satellite and cable is still what is coming from licensees of OTA stations and contracted network affiliates. So, without the local affiliate station to broadcast the programming, those viewers get a "blue screen".

    Unless the networks (or, should I say, "when" the networks) quit selling programming to affiliates, and just put up a national pay channel on DBS and Cable, there will still need to be local OTA stations to link that programming from network to viewer....even if there is another step (Cable or Satellite) in between.

    Of course, when "all OTA channels go away", I wonder who will be the local link for news and emergencies? Will it be your local "City Hall TV", or county "Sheriff's Department News", or "Civil Defense Channels"?
     
  18. La Push Commercial Codman

    La Push Commercial Codman Banned User

    187
    0
    Jan 4, 2007
    James Long, You left out video on demand, commercial free goods. Kenglish didn't mention our D.V.R. Commercial free O.T.A. NEWS, COMMERCIAL FREE O.T.A. SOAPS, DRAMA, COMEDY, AND A WHOLE TON OFF COMMERCIAL FREE GOODS.. GOING HI DEFINITION D.V.R. Don't forget E*'s U.S. Supreme court issue. We need to email our congress leaders. Our new one's.. I have Honorble Kevin McCarthy to email to support for distant network support, for 800'000 subs on Dish, who lost there distant networks..
     
  19. kenglish

    kenglish Icon

    973
    2
    Oct 2, 2004
    Salt Lake...
    When the networks lose the income they get from the local broadcasters (who have to buy the programming from them, they'll definitely want to charge the viewers for it. And, they'll be a defacto monopoly, too.
     
  20. rec9140

    rec9140 Cool Member

    18
    0
    Dec 22, 2006
    The mess of the various laws on the books now was BOUGHT and PAID for courtsey of the NAB. Syndex and all the other crap.... Its 2007 and the laws written still do not account for DBS, they still consider only OTA and crapble which have obvious limits on their territory served.


    No, this has not happened, YET. I'm suggesting that it SHOULD OCCUR, and the sooner the better. Its wasted spectrum better served for public safety and new wireless services, not wasted video broadasting that an over whelming majority of persons do not even use.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page