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SD looks worse AFTER HD upgrade / HD resolution set FAQ

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by xmguy, Dec 13, 2009.

  1. xmguy

    xmguy New Member

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    Mar 26, 2008
    Middle, TN
    USING R22-200/-100

    I got my system upgraded to HD today. But now when I watch my SD channels in 480i/p the PQ is WORSE then when I had SD alone. I've noticed this across my SD/HD setup. Is this just a wrong setting, or something I must live with? I don't think that SD should look WORSE after HD upgrade, only the same?

    Also Since I have a HD TV and SD TV connected together. I wanted to simplify things. I turned Native on and limited the signal to 1080i and 480i available resolutions. If a program is in 720p will it still display the 720p signal or will the R22 up convert to 1080i? I'm trying to avoid changing a lot of setting when I watch a HD recording/channel on my SD set.
     
  2. BattleScott

    BattleScott Hall Of Fame

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    A few reasons for the SD difference:

    1 - the larger the screen, the worse SD will look.
    2 - the more HD you watch, the worse SD will look.

    On the 720p/Native mode question:

    No, the DVR will only output resolutions that are enabled, regardless of the native mode setting, so it will output the 720p material as 1080i.
     
  3. hilmar2k

    hilmar2k Hall Of Fame

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    That seems like a bad idea. If you have a 1080p TV, you should let the TV do the scaling/de-interlacing. Otherwise, if you have the (H)R2x output everything as 1080i, a 720p signal is being scaled to 1080, then interlaced to 1080i, only to be de-interlaced by the TV.
     
  4. Grentz

    Grentz New Member

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    Jan 10, 2007
    It really is just experimenting with your gear. I find with my TV it works great if I set the receiver to output everything as 1080i. Other TVs might be like you stated though.
     
  5. xmguy

    xmguy New Member

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    Mar 26, 2008
    Middle, TN
    The thing is on the SD PQ front. On my SD TV (R15) the PQ is great (for SD) The R22 was this was also PRE HD uprade. My SD Tv connected to my R22 seems to display ok. While my HD TV displays WORSE then what it did. Yes HD is great but SD shouldn't be so bad that faces are almost impossible to make out. Even recorded content PRE upgrade to HD upgrade, shows up this way bad PQ. I have set everything to Native and enabled the resolutions available. BTW this is all on my R22-200. Also for SD which should display better 480 i or p? I still don't get WHY just this morning my SD recordings looked fine in 480p and now locked to the SAME resolution as I've blocked 480i the PQ is awful
     
  6. MountainMan10

    MountainMan10 Icon

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    Jan 30, 2008
    Some HD TV's do better than others with SD. But in general, to have a good picture on an HD TV you need an HD signal.

    On my Sharp 46" TV the SD looks better in 480p. It is not a lot better than 480i, but it is a little better.
     
  7. Grentz

    Grentz New Member

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    Jan 10, 2007
    Ok, I am really trying to understand what you are talking about so I can help, but having a hard time.

    What happened this morning? What did you upgrade...Your TV? Directv Service? Did you just upgrade to HD DirecTV service and keep the same boxes?

    SD usually will look crappier on an HDTV than an SDTV as the HDTV shows the artifacts and issues much more than an SDTV. Also many SDTVs have a bit of "blur" that masks things and makes them look better.
     
  8. xmguy

    xmguy New Member

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    Mar 26, 2008
    Middle, TN
    I apologize if I'm not being very clear. Busy day today. I'm a bit tired. What was upgraded was my dish from an 18" round (SD only) to a Slimline 3 and added a HR21 for HD access on my R22. Prior to that My R22 was locked in SD. 480p image. It looked fine to me (for those asking why did I get HD. some of my shows CUT off the edges of the programs vs letter-boxing them. Plus the SD version of those channels are WORSE than normal SD also HD gives me MORE channels I DON'T normally get on SD only). HD was installed today and now the HD looks stunning. I've seen HD on my only local station that broadcasts in HD, but anyway. Here is the clincher. When I resume back to SD the image looks worse. Worse than it did BEFORE I had the HD unlocked and HD added. One thing I theorized is that the 1080i or 720p image is SO highly defined that my eyes aren't adjusted. (this usually happens when I see HD for the first few mins). When I revert to SD the image compared to what I WAS watching was so much better that my brain doesn't know how to manage. Why I say this is NOW the image in SD looks fine. Now I may not be focusing on it as much who knows. BUT never the less the SD images of faces far away in SD NOW look blurred and pixelated MORE than they looked PRIOR to my HD upgrade today. I'm saying this after a few hours of seeing my last HD program. So I know it's not just me. It's almost like it's loosing MORE PQ than it was on SD alone. Hope this helps. I'm baffled.
     
  9. Grentz

    Grentz New Member

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    Well I can say if it is the same box they will be the exact same channels and output you were looking at before. The SD channels are the same whether you have HD access or not and no matter what receiver you have. The only difference is if the receiver does some upconverting internally vs. your TV doing the work depending on what you have the receiver output resolution set at. Usually it makes very little difference though, especially with SD channels.

    My guess is it is just more stunning now that you can see the direct difference between SD and HD. Luckily a good chunk of channels are in HD so there are not too many SD channels most have to worry about.
     
  10. xmguy

    xmguy New Member

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    You may be right. It's just strange. I thought maybe something was wrong. Thanks
     
  11. BattleScott

    BattleScott Hall Of Fame

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    One thing that hasn't been touched on is the format selection.
    Are you using the "pillar box" mode for SD channels? If not, the additional stretching of the image might be causing the PQ difference you see.
     
  12. xmguy

    xmguy New Member

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    I'm using Native. Set in original formatting. So that isn't the issue.
     
  13. BattleZone

    BattleZone Hall Of Fame

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    If you compare the number of pixels on an SD feed (720x480 max resolution) compared to an HD feed (1920x1080 max resolution), you'd see that HD has SIX TIMES the number of pixels to make up the feed. In reality, DirecTV's SD channels are down-rezzed to 480x480, so it is actually closer to EIGHT times more pixels on an HD channel. That's a HUGE difference, and when you spread so few pixels over a much larger screen (nearly everyone who buys an HDTV buys one much larger than the SDTV it replaced), it's no surprise that SD looks terrible by comparison.

    Remember that SDTV standards were set in the 1930s, and designed for screens up to 20". But if you don't watch HDTV regularly, you get used to how poor SD looks on a large screen. The problem comes when you DO watch HD, and then try to go back to SD; the SD suddenly seems unwatchable. It's a very common complaint, but it goes back to the whole point of going HD: SD was always bad on the larger screens that everyone wants. Those big screens really *require* HD.
     
  14. BattleScott

    BattleScott Hall Of Fame

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    Using the "original format" setting lets the TV determine how the image should be displayed based on the programs aspect ratio value. Some sets recognize the aspect ratio and will change accordingly, others do not. For instance, my pannasonic plasma does not recognize the aspect ratio values so it displays the SD signals as 16:9 casuing them to be stretched. I have to force the mode in the HR22 to "pillar box" to display the SD channels in the correct 4:3 aspect ratio. Does your set display the images at the correct 4:3 ratio? If not, this might be why you see them as more degraded than before.
     
  15. xmguy

    xmguy New Member

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    Yes, My Vizio changes to 4:3 automatically.
     

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