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SixtoReport: D12 Satellite Info in Post#1 - Live!

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by Sixto, Jul 27, 2008.

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  1. Sep 12, 2009 #101 of 10270
    hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    It's called planning. :rolleyes:

    I challenge you to read the entire D12 pre-launch thread and all links to become informed. The first post alone contains more information than most people can digest in one sitting. It also contains numerous reference links to governmental filings on D12, so one might suspect there's more than "uncertainty".

    I suspect only a few of us have actually read them all. I know Sixto and LameLefty have, which is why their information posts are valuable.
    If you or anyone else is misleading people to incorrectly understand something - they are counter-productive.

    Your statements as to the certainty of the D12 launch is misleading in the least and false in general.

    As many others have stated....for a Dish customer to be posting information as to what DirecTV will or won't do, why it did something, how it did something, or when it does something.....is a non-subscriber's speculative opinion at best.

    :backtotop
     
  2. Sep 12, 2009 #102 of 10270
    harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    It could, but that will depend a great deal on the power used to push the signal. There's currently a lot of jockeying going on to determine the slot spacing for this band and some are calling for schemes that may not allow for "full power".

    If BSS were the answer to rain fade, I would have hoped that they would have tested it in the southeast U.S. where fade seems to be a much bigger problem. Then again, now that the hurricane season is essentially over, snow is the next big impediment on the weather schedule.
     
  3. Sep 12, 2009 #103 of 10270
    hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    Great question - you might want to wait from LameLefty or Sixto to chime in with an answer....they know their stuff in this arena.
     
  4. Sep 12, 2009 #104 of 10270
    harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    Giving it a name doesn't make it any more substantive.
    I have followed the aforementioned thread since inception and have offered a great deal of new material and discussion along the way.
    I've pointed out where some of those items are seemingly in conflict. You can't have a launch window in October if the satellite isn't delivered until October. The first post has lots of information but the interpretation is in the ongoing discussion.
    Do you have supporting documentation or are you just flailing?
    Being a DIRECTV subscriber doesn't somehow endow one with otherwise unattainable insight on the launch of any satellite. We all have access to the same information and it is how we use the information that sets us apart.
     
  5. Sep 12, 2009 #105 of 10270
    hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    There are a number of folks here at DBSTalk who have various non-public knowledge resources on various topics. Non-disclosure rules always apply.

    Being a subscriber motivates people to help fellow users to the same service.

    What motivates a non-subscriber to post in another service's thread?

    Enough said.

    For the last time ----

    :backtotop
     
  6. Sep 12, 2009 #106 of 10270
    LameLefty

    LameLefty I used to be a rocket scientist

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    It's my understanding that BSS, being a subset of the Ku band, will perform similarly with regard to weather interference; that is to say, it should generally be better than Ka and be a little bit more tolerant of slight dish misalignment.

    The technical data attached to the various BSS license applications, authorizations and requests related to RB-2A have a great deal of RF attenuation and interference data; I lack the RF background necessary to discuss that material in non-mathematical terms (and I'll note as well that despite being less than a semester away from a undergrad minor in mathematics, my formal math education recedes further into the past with every passing day . .. :lol:). Perhaps VeryOldSchool, Tom or someone else could comment in a bit more detail.
     
  7. Sep 13, 2009 #107 of 10270
    kevinwmsn

    kevinwmsn Hall Of Fame

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    Testing it out in southeast would be a great test for rain fade. I hope BSS is more weather resistant than Ka. But Harsh, apparently you haven't lived in the Southeast with the above statements about hurricanes. We are still in the busy part of hurricane season, just ask other folks in the Louisiana, Mississippi ,Alabama,Florida whether they are dish/directtv subscribers. There have been plenty of September/early October storms that have done considerable damage to think it is "essentially over".
     
  8. Sep 13, 2009 #108 of 10270
    Groundhog45

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    Very true. Today is the one year anniversary of Hurricane Ike hitting Galveston, Texas.
     
  9. Sep 14, 2009 #109 of 10270
    Ernie

    Ernie AllStar

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    Since the BSS downlink band (17.3-17.8 Ghz) is closer to the Ka-lo downlink band (18.3-18.8 Ghz), than the Ku downlink band (12.2-12.7 Ghz), I would expect it to behave more like Ka-lo. The change in water absorption is steep but fairly linear from 10 Ghz (.01 dB/km) to 20 Ghz (.1 dB/km). (The change in oxygen absorption is negligible). I would guess the rain fade to be 80% of the Ka-lo rainfade.

    Ernie
     
  10. Sep 14, 2009 #110 of 10270
    harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    I understand that the hurricane season officially runs through November 30th. My reasoning is that it doesn't look like DIRECTV 12 is launching until late November at the very earliest (unless Boeing finishes substantially earlier than projected; something that rarely happens). If that is the case, testing would likely not commence until some time in January (remembering that the holidays are stacked up around that time of year).
     
  11. Sep 14, 2009 #111 of 10270
    smiddy

    smiddy Tain't ogre til its ogre

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  12. Sep 14, 2009 #112 of 10270
    bobnielsen

    bobnielsen Éminence grise

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    Good find! I recall seeing curves like that about 30 years ago but when I looked over the weekend I couldn't locate them in any of the technical books I currently have (and I'm not sure why I still keep them 15 years after early retirement).
     
  13. Sep 14, 2009 #113 of 10270
    smiddy

    smiddy Tain't ogre til its ogre

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    I keep mine too...if you have any RF references most carry a similar set of diagrams/pictorials discribing the attenuation brought about by oxegen and water, especially if you have any references to link anaylsis. My desktop ones are from the Electronic Warfare (EW) point of view. :)
     
  14. Sep 14, 2009 #114 of 10270
    jazzyjez

    jazzyjez Legend

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    This may be of interest (I don't know if these interplanetary missions use the same facilities as those for commercial satellites):
    BBC news reports that the Russian Phobos-Grunt spacecraft - scheduled for an Oct/Nov 2009 launch from Baikonur (to match the window for a Mars mission) - may now be postponed for up to 2 years.
     
  15. Sep 14, 2009 #115 of 10270
    bobnielsen

    bobnielsen Éminence grise

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    Bainbridge...
    I worked briefly (1966-68) in that field. I have a lot of RF references, but most of them relate to hardware design. I looked a bit further and found a small curve in an old copy of the ITT Reference Data for Radio Engineers (a.k.a the "Green Bible" although later editions were blue) which has limited data but correlates to your reference.
     
  16. Sep 14, 2009 #116 of 10270
    Tom Robertson

    Tom Robertson Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    Thanks for the find and for sharing.

    Baikonur is a huge complex. Several launch facilities. The definitely can launch low earth orbit without affecting GEO sat schedules. I'm guessing this probe would also be on another launch pad, so doesn't impact D12. Mostly because this probe never showed up on the schedules for the GEO sat launches. :)

    Thanks again,
    Tom
     
  17. Sep 15, 2009 #117 of 10270
    Ernie

    Ernie AllStar

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    This one seems to be right: http://www.rfcafe.com/references/electrical/atm-absorption.htm

    Ernie
     
  18. Sep 17, 2009 #118 of 10270
    doctor j

    doctor j Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    I see that my post on NIMIQ 5 has been moved to Dish forum :

    http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2220100&posted=1#post2220100

    BUT believe it has significance in the Directv arena.
    ? about 72.5 may belong elsewhere but the announcement at the end of the live launch broadcast that W-7 was the next ILS Proton/Breeze-M launch is significant in relation to the timing of D-12 launch

    Respectfully submitted:
    Doctor j
     
  19. Sep 17, 2009 #119 of 10270
    QuickDrop

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    I agree. I don't understand why your post (and P. Smith's response) was deleted. It comes across as censoring bad news for D*. If you information or conjecture was incorrect in some way, I would rather hear it disputed than not know it at all.
     
  20. Sep 17, 2009 #120 of 10270
    LameLefty

    LameLefty I used to be a rocket scientist

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    I don't know what P Smith's response was, but there's nothing particularly "negative" about Directv's removal of LILs from 72.5 Those transponders have been leased and frankly those outlying slots that require additional dishes have always been a real PITA for Directv. Moving those locals to MPEG4 in the "core" 99-101-103 arc have obviously been planned for a long time.
     
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