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Soft Padding/Didn't Record MLB Baseball

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by somguy, Oct 30, 2008.

  1. SteveK2

    SteveK2 Mentor

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    I dunno...I setup the recordings at about 8:30am yesterday. The guide had the Obama TV special listed @8PM. I clicked to record it -- and it did record. Right after that program was "MLB Baseball" starting @8:30pm and the description was for Game 6 from Tampa.

    Once I got home, Obama recorded correctly. No MLB Baseball -- I started it manually after the game already had resumed. Checking the History -- the recording was "canceled" because the "program was no longer available", but right underneath, there was the line "program recorded as of XX:XXPM today".

    The guide info had changed to show Game 5 resumption.

    So, the history itself is mixed up. It shows that it didn't record the program as-scheduled because the program schedule changed. But when I manually started recording the resumed Game 5, the history was updated for a program that was supposedly no longer available???

    As jjohns said, "pretty bad". You can't be confident that anything you set to record is actually done right.

    The so-called "History" isn't even a history. If I record program "A" on Monday and erase it on the following Friday, there should be either: a) one History entry showing program "A" recorded on Monday and erased on Friday (with time/date stamp on each notation), or b) two History entries: one for program "A" recorded on Monday and one for program "A" deletion on Friday.

    The current implementation of history renders the history pretty useless since one has to remember when something was originally recorded to determine its disposition. Not user-friendly at all.

    My UTV never had this problem. Even when the guide was updated, the recording was still made correctly and I didn't have to setup a 'series link' or equivalent. And its history was accurate & informative.
     
  2. Doug Brott

    Doug Brott Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    ...

    Ah, I think you found the exact reason .. Tribune showed this as "Game 6" originally (who would have thought the last game would be 2.5 days long :shrug:) and was later corrected to be "Game 5." So, really, the original program was canceled and no longer exists. There never will be a Game 6 this year.
     
  3. bonscott87

    bonscott87 Cutting Edge: ECHELON '07

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    Also note that because this was on Fox, every single local Fox station provides their own guide data to Tribune. So some may have updated guide data earlier then others which explains why some saw it earlier then others.

    But yea, the guide data for Game 6 no longer existed and was replaced by Game 5 resumed. This would be exactly the same if originally Bones was scheduled and it got replaced with House. Your recording of Bones would be canceled and that's it. It certainly wouldn't try to record House, different program. Game 6 and Game 5 are different programs in the same way. A Tivo would have the same problem in this case. I remember many times a Tivo rep would post on the Tivo Community when something like this would happen to alert people to check their ToDo list. Most people would never know about it.
     
  4. SteveK2

    SteveK2 Mentor

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    Well, whoever is doing the guide updates shouldn't be CANCELING the program, just updating it. Its my understanding that each program has a unique id. There was a MLB Baseball game in the 8:30pm timeslot. It was originally for Game 6, but the timeslot was updated for Game 5's resumption. That should be a CHANGE, not a DELETE and ADD.
     
  5. SteveK2

    SteveK2 Mentor

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    OK, that makes sense, although it is scary that each affiliate has that level of control over the guide, IMHO.:eek2:

    Sorry, I disagree that they are different programs. The program name was "MLB Baseball". Its been the same for all games of the World Series. It is the DESCRIPTION that was different. So your analogy doesn't hold. IF "MLB Baseball" was replaced with "NFL Football", then the logic of your analogy would hold true. Or, if the Program was "MLB BASEBALL WS GAME 5" and changed to "MLB BASEBALL WS GAME 6", but I don't believe that was the case. Your example is replacing one program with a completely different program, which wasn't the case here.

    The program stayed the SAME. It was the description that CHANGED.
     
  6. SteveK2

    SteveK2 Mentor

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    Good suggestion that I will take from now on.:)
     
  7. dcowboy7

    dcowboy7 Hall Of Fame

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    whenever its a wierd situation like last nite i dont trust the guide....i just set a manual recording for say 8:00pm - 1:00am.
     
  8. dhhaines

    dhhaines Hall Of Fame

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    Speaking of weird.. he replied to your post before you posted it... :lol:

    Back to your regularly scheduled program :)
     
  9. dcowboy7

    dcowboy7 Hall Of Fame

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    yea my sis hit a key and locked it up so i posted again....but it is halloween eve. :eek2:
     
  10. Doug Brott

    Doug Brott Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    The Program ID changed, I'm sure .. That's where it matter. It may not be quite the same as Bones changing to House, but it can be much the same as a different program being aired ..

    If Bones: Dead and Breakfast was canceled and replaced by Bones: Ghouls Night Out for example. If you manually set 'Dead and Breakfast' to record and it becomes canceled then you would need to set 'Ghouls Night Out' to record if you wanted the replacement episode. A Series Link of course would have added the replacement program for you, but the manual recording is no longer valid (there is no 'Dead and Breakfast' on the schedule after the cancellation).

    This is what happened when it moved from "Game 6" to "Game 5" .. It was not the same episode.
     
  11. Doug Brott

    Doug Brott Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    Fortunately, things are improving on the Guide Data front, but it is still not an exact science. It's based on human entry and all too often humans make mistakes.
     
  12. SteveK2

    SteveK2 Mentor

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    Very true. It just seems that if procedures would be put in-place for these kinds of situations to UPDATE the program_id instead of deleting the old program and adding a new one, then this kind of situation would not occur.

    D* must realize that people are setting up their DVRs to record these events. Human errors can still occur, but live sporting events generally are a one-shot deal. Regular programs can usually be caught on a re-run cycle.
     
  13. bonscott87

    bonscott87 Cutting Edge: ECHELON '07

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    Agreed. However, Tribune is the one that inputs the guide data, DirecTV (and Dish, etc.) just sends it along. Someone at DirecTV would have to be sifting thru tens of millions of guide data entries, let alone daily changes, every week and then notice that something "isn't right". Not saying they couldn't do that, but that's pretty labor intensive and expensive to do.
     
  14. Doug Brott

    Doug Brott Lifetime Achiever DBSTalk Club

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    Correct .. DIRECTV uses a service (Tribune) for the Guide data.
     
  15. SteveK2

    SteveK2 Mentor

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    If Tribune enters the guide data (under contract with D*), wouldn't/shouldn't D* specify the procedures for UPDATES to live events? Seems to me its in D*'s best interest for customer satisfaction.

    So is Tribune really entering guide data for each Fox affiliate separately? That by itself is labor intensive and prone to errors.
     
  16. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    Yes that is exactly what soft padding is... it actually records 30 seconds early, and 90 seconds long, if it won't conflict with any other recordings or viewings going on...


    As for the second part... And for everyone... This is why I always suggest you use a series link for all playoff type games... Networks have a habit of changing things at the last minute when it comes to sports and big games in playoffs...
     
  17. bonscott87

    bonscott87 Cutting Edge: ECHELON '07

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    You're almost there but not quite understanding how it works. Tribune sells guide data to pretty much everyone, not specifically for DirecTV. Tribune sells their database to Tivo, DirecTV, Dish, cable, etc. They are pretty much the standard in the industry. So to explain it simply, DirecTV (and Dish, etc.) take that database file and load it up into their system (I'm sure it's probably some sort of live stream but I'm just keeping it simple). It then goes down the data stream to our receivers. So while I'm sure DirecTV may make requests on how to update events, Tribune isn't doing this just for DirecTV, it's for everyone.

    Yes. Every single affiliate in the country, all 1200+ of them have their own separate guide data that gets submitted and entered into Tribune. If you think about it they are all different except for prime time and a few other hours a day and even then a local station may show high school football Friday night instead of Prime time and run those shows in the middle of the night instead. Otherwise all these network affiliates show different programming most of the day. So my Fox may submit guide data changes "correctly" while yours may not. It's been a common problem for over a decade.
     
  18. LI-SVT

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    I have found series links to not work with sports events. I have set them and found only the event it is set on would record.
     
  19. SteveK2

    SteveK2 Mentor

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    Thanks, Scott....the background/details are appreciated. Knowing that Tribune is the data provider for multiple services with guide data puts things into context for me. I'm not looking to beat a dead horse any further, but I still think that there is some other issue/glitch going on. The DVR's History contradicted itself....it included info that the recording was cancelled due to the program's no longer being available AND it showed that the program was recorded manually starting @8:38pm (or whatever actual time). So if this was a different program id, why would the history show both pieces of info in one entry? That's a rhetorical question....maybe it is a history glitch and not a guide issue.

    Bottom line is -- I'll have to keep this kind of situation in mind for the future and try to workaround it.

    Thanks again for the detailed info.:)
     
  20. somguy

    somguy Legend

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    Hey Guys.......thanks for all of your input. I also had Obama set to record at 8pm. What had apparently happened was that Game 6 was scheduled from 8:30pm to 11:30pm. Then it got changed to 8:30pm to 10:30pm followed by local news. Since the time slot ending changed, something in the code changed and cancelled the recording; it's fu**ed up!! Another problem with modern technology; what else is new?!

    Like I asked earlier, what is the definiton of Soft Padding? Since it's a new feature of the latest software. Is it adding extra time to a show or just the fact that now it records 1 minute passed the scheduled ending time? Any input would be quite helpful and thanks for reading my posts.
     

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