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Sub-channel EPG Info

Discussion in 'DISH™ OTA Support and Discussion Forum' started by Blowgun, Mar 10, 2015.

  1. Blowgun

    Blowgun DHMO User

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    I recently installed OTA tuners for both of my Hoppers and within 24 hours the sub-channel EPG information appeared, but not all. For example, my local ABC, CBS and NBC each have one sub-channel and the EPG shows individual program listings for Movies, Antenna TV and This TV, respectively. Which is very convenient.

    However, my local Fox station has two sub-channels, RTV and Grit. Oddly, only RTV shows EPG information. Grit, OTOH, just says, "Grit" across the entire EPG. Independent channel MyTV has one sub-channel, METV, and like Grit, just says, "METV" across the guide.

    Any idea why the Fox station would have individual listings for RTV, but not Grit?

    And, why MyTV would have no listings at all for METV?
     
  2. mwdxer

    mwdxer Well-Known Member

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    Out here on the Oregon Coast, I have the same issue. The local NBC has their main channel and their first sub with guide info (8.1 NBC, 8.2 Justice TV), but 8.3 Estrella there is no guide info on that, or on either 12.1 (Fox) or 49.1 (MYTV). So it is a mixed bag out there on what people get with the guide info OTA.
     
  3. Blowgun

    Blowgun DHMO User

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    It is as if the receiver is smart enough to name the sub-channel in the EPG (eg: "Grit" and "METV"), but when EPG data is not available, the receiver is not smart enough to use the available OTA data provided by the station. Also, aren't these networks common?

    Sure they are a little further down on the food chain, but still I would think they are common enough. Both TitanTV and Zap2It online show both networks in their listings. OTOH, the TV Guide online listings are pathetic as they do not list many channels (eg: only 3 HBO channels out of 8). So, who knows what TV Guide actually has available to them.
     
  4. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    The Zap2It guide is a good indicator of what DISH has available to them. DISH has extra EPG data for over a thousand sub-channels but not all sub-channels are mapped.

    Every channel they add to the EPG makes the EPG transmission bigger. DISH currently has individual EPG for 5595 channels (including the OTA sub-channels).

    Using the OTA received EPG data would require DISH to program the receiver to scan the OTA channels, collect the data and build an EPG. During the scan time watching TV would not be possible (other than on the channel being scanned).

    If you have a digital tuner you may wish to check to see what your local OTA station is sending for EPG ... how many hours in advance and what the content is. I have not looked for a couple of years but my local stations were showing the FCC minimum number of hours and often listed "Digital Program" instead of the real programming.
     
  5. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    Salem, OR
    One of my local OTA channels is an OTA guide channel and that helps quite a bit with the channels that DISH doesn't cover.
     
  6. Michael P

    Michael P Hall Of Fame

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    This site used to have a thread where subchannel EPG data requests were tracked. Many of us posted the subchannels that were not getting guide data. In the end it seems that it's the local station's relationship with Dish and not the "netlet" on the subchannels that determined which ones got guide data.

    For example, in Cleveland "THIS" originally was carried by one of the Raycom stations. All subchannels on Raycom stations got guide data. Once THIS moved from a Raycom station to another station (owned by Winston) I no longer get THIS in the EPG. Another example is "Antenna TV", carried on our FOX station (now owned by Tribune, formerly a "New World" station) never had EPG data, yet I see other markets with an Antenna TV subchannel getting the data. Our NBC affiliate, owned by Gannett always had EPG data, even when their subchannel consisted of just weather radar - all the E/I programs showed up on the EPG. (it's now "Justice" with a full schedule in the EPG)

    So here is the Cleveland subchannel EPG "scorecard":

    Gannett owned = Yes
    Scripps owned = No
    Tribune owned = No (Ironic, since Tribune is a big provider in the "netlet" arena)
    Raycom owned = Yes
    ION owned = No (at least they put the name of the 5 subchannels in the EPG in place of "digital service")
    PBS (we have two) = yes for both (good thing since they have plenty of subchannels
    Winston (Ernest Angley's station that is also our CW & THIS) = no
    Univision owned = No

    This does not include 2 low power digital stations who don't even keep correct data on their PSIP stream for OTA tuners
     
  7. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    This site still has two such threads, sticky at the top of this very forum...

    This thread is for posting your problems/missing OTA EPG data.
    This thread is for discussion of issues.

    I agree, though, that Dish largely seems to be doing nothing with the requests for OTA EPG data lately.
     
  8. Blowgun

    Blowgun DHMO User

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    I do not believe that is the case for me. My local FOX station has two sub-channels, RTV and Grit. Only RTV has guide data.

    Does METV broadcast the same content for everyone at the same moment?

    That is, no matter the time zone, everyone would see the same episode of "Route 66"?
     
  9. Michael P

    Michael P Hall Of Fame

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  10. Michael P

    Michael P Hall Of Fame

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    GRIT is a new netlet, perhaps there data is not yet available. RTV OTOH is the "grandaddy" of netlets. Here in Cleveland our RTV is by an LPTV station that just went digital last week.
     
  11. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I started the thread... with a problem of my own... that hasn't been resolved in all this time either. It is very disappointing the way Dish kind of half-asses the OTA EPG data. Stations in some markets, but not other, some linked to wrong info for months or years. It's one thing when a local changes, I don't expect Dish to jump to attention... but there has been years in some cases. One of my PBS sub-channels used to be correct but a couple of years ago Dish inexplicably moved the link so that two sub-channels mirror the same EPG info even though last I looked at an uplink the correct data still exists in their matrix!
     
  12. Michael P

    Michael P Hall Of Fame

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    In the case of "THIS" in Cleveland, when it was replaced with "Bounce" the EPG on Raycom owned station (WUAB) immediately updated, while the new home of THIS (WBNX) never got the guide.

    So E* does jump to attention for some stations, just not all. Same is true for my Gannett station which dropped their weather radar for "Justice TV". Guide data on 3.2 was always there and up to date.
     
  13. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    DISH likely did not have to change a thing when those channels changed format. The station changed the data they were sending Tribune for the channel and DISH kept using whatever they received.
     
  14. Jim5506

    Jim5506 Hall Of Fame

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    Dish network is in the business of providing satellite TV programming to its subscribers.

    As a perk some of their receivers are able to or can be modified to carry any OTA signals that the subscriber may be able to receive with whatever antenna system the subscribe has installed.

    I feel we are fortunate that Dish does not do OTA the way DirecTV does, their receivers can only tune OTA channels that DirecTV specifies and provides guide data for.

    It would be nice for Dish to provide guide data for every channel and sub-channel that exists (even those it does not carry via satellite), but they do not.

    I get what little programming information I need for such channels with TitanTV.

    I understand that keeping up with associating the data to the constantly changing OTA landscape is not free and not a part of my contract with Dish - it is a serendipity and I'll not complain about gaps in it or problems with it.
     
  15. Blowgun

    Blowgun DHMO User

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    Regardless, DISH does provide the means to receive OTA and as long as that continues, the EPG data for the subs should be provided. Plus, as I understand it, some of the EPG data is mere duplication of what is already available to other markets and it's inclusion would not have any serious impact on the majority of DISH subscribers. After all, the inflexible reboot time DISH picked for the Hopper was based on the idea that most people would be asleep, so how long it takes the receiver to download the EPG data each night is a none-issue.
     
  16. harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

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    Perhaps it would be useful to take a step back and determine how many "the subs" we're talking about. If a vanishingly small proportion of "the subs" feel they are entitled to something, is it worth chasing after?

    I see the OTA EPG issue as being very similar to the channel count issue where people simply want more without caring particularly what more it is.

    If DISH does carry information, it should be up-to-date but beyond that, I don't think it is a fiduciary responsibility.
     
  17. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Each channel entry in the EPG table is for one channel. While DISH has figured out a way to share the full EPG with mirrors of the same national channels (and uses this technique on HD channels including the special feeds for AK/HI/PR and commercial distribution) sharing an EPG does not work unless the EPG is 100% duplicated. In other words, putting up an "Antenna TV" EPG feed then mapping every local affiliate's "Antenna TV" subchannel to that feed only works if every affiliate carries the same video feed with no preemptions.

    Sharing EPG only works when ALL of the EPG data is a duplication for a channel ... not just most or some.


    Once everyone has a Hopper perhaps DISH can change the system. As for now, DISH needs to support getting EPG to older receivers. The 8PSK conversion set to begin will help get the older and oldest receivers off of the system, but will not make DISH a "Hopper only" system of receivers.

    BTW: Hoppers, with their three tuners, can also pull a complete EPG data download at any time of day. I have seen mine pull a download in the afternoon (it shows up on the "red button" TV Activity screen). It does not need to be done once in the middle of the night the way older receivers pull their data. The reboot is to give the receiver a daily fresh start and will not occur if the reboot would affect a recording or is delayed by an alert viewer watching a program.
     

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