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Swiftboat vs Moveon.org

Discussion in 'The OT' started by Paladin, Aug 22, 2004.

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  1. Aug 25, 2004 #81 of 126
    Lyle_JP

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    lee,

    Michael Moore's film is the apparent source of lies, so I'm supposed to trust his website to clear things up? However, even reading his website, I see that he in no way manages to refute many of charges of lying documented about F9/11.

    For example, Michael Moore tries to claim that one of the reasons we went to war in Afghanistan was because Unocal wanted to build a pipeline across Afghanistan. Never mind the fact that Unocal abandoned all interest in the pipeline in 2000, and that no such construction has even been considered or gone forward since the war. So what does Michael Moore show to prove that the pipeline was a reason for invasion on his site? News articles from 1997!! Hellloooo Mikey, you did know that the invasion of Afghanistan took place in late 2001, didn't you?

    He manages to avoid mentioning the forged newspaper headline altogether.

    However, this is so off the point. My only point was that MoveOn.org was hosting ads comparing Bush to Hitler, that it was a choice MoveOn made to do so, and that they continued to secretly host the file for more than six months after promising to take it down. Drudge proved it with a link to the file on July 12th, and even a Democrat could have clicked on that link that day and seen that Drudge was right.
     
  2. Aug 25, 2004 #82 of 126
    toenail

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    I didn't say anything about the 527 ads. I referred to the DNC and "the left." And the point really isn't who is making the claims. Or at least it shouldn't be. The point should be whether the claims are true, or at least if there is some credible evidence to back up the claims. And the attacks made on Bush for being AWOL appear to have much less evidentiary support than the attacks being made on Kerry about certain aspects of his service. Some of the claims against him (Christmas Eve in Cambodia is the best example) have been pretty much conceded by the Kerry camp. So, there were all of these claims being made about Bush being AWOL a number of months ago. Some of those claims were made by Kerry himself. But the evidence never bore out the claims. So, where was Kerry's apology? Now, when the worm has turned on him, he's quick to say that we should all be nice to each other. It seems to me that it's a little late for that.
     
  3. Aug 25, 2004 #83 of 126
    HappyGoLucky

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    Communication is NOT against the law. Coordination is.
     
  4. Aug 25, 2004 #84 of 126
    HappyGoLucky

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    So you paint the entire "left" by the actions of one person who posted a video to a contest? Can I brand the entire "right" in the same manner by linking them to Steveox? :D
     
  5. Aug 25, 2004 #85 of 126
    HappyGoLucky

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    An Drudge has never lied, huh? The link was removed. Did Bush remove the "Hitler" crap from HIS website? Where's your condemnation of that usage?
     
  6. Aug 25, 2004 #86 of 126
    HappyGoLucky

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    Unless you can prove it right now, I don't believe you.
     
  7. Aug 25, 2004 #87 of 126
    HappyGoLucky

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    But the only evidence to support your claim is you, and the fact that you deem Drudge a reliable source puts your own veracity into question.
     
  8. Aug 25, 2004 #88 of 126
    Lyle_JP

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    No, idiot. My evidence is that, on the day in question (more than six months after MoveOn said it was gone), I was able to click that link to MoveOn.org's server and download the "Bush is Hitler" video.

    So again, if you're calling Drudge a liar in this matter then you're calling me a liar too.
     
  9. Aug 25, 2004 #89 of 126
    Paladin

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    I think the issue is that if the news source doesn't completely lean to the left, the liberals refer to it as yellow journalism (ie. Fox News, Drudge Report). If they can't report only the extreme left's agenda, then they must be extremely right. What does this mean for your average citizen? It means that they are fed garbage all of the time to the point of not being able to even grasp the truth.
     
  10. Aug 25, 2004 #90 of 126
    toenail

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    I'm glad you caught that! I was borrowing from those at this site who tend to paint everyone on the right with the same broad brush. It's not fun, is it? But it shouldn't bother you, since you're not on the left, correct?
     
  11. Aug 25, 2004 #91 of 126
    toenail

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    I've criticized Happy's name-calling, so I'll try to be "fair and balanced." Happy is not an idiot. He actually seems to be a fairly intelligent, though somewhat misguided, fellow. I hope that we exchange the comments on this board with a view toward trying to sway, however slightly, the opinions of the readers. My guess is that we won't succeed in that endeavor if we stoop to name-calling. While I disagree strongly with many of Happy's positions, and I've been quite critical of him, I have enough respect for him to not demean him personally. As the resident nag #2 (out of respect for Nick!) I am respectfully requesting that the insults be toned down. Thank you for your consideration. :)
     
  12. Aug 25, 2004 #92 of 126
    Lyle_JP

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    Perhaps when Happy stops accusing me of lying I will stop thinking of him as an idiot.
     
  13. Aug 25, 2004 #93 of 126
    RichW

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    Well you did lie in another thread when you said Kerry was not in Vietnam before November 1968.
     
  14. Aug 25, 2004 #94 of 126
    pjmrt

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    must have blinked - sure haven't seen, heard or read it.
     
  15. Aug 25, 2004 #95 of 126
    pjmrt

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    Two points: Kerry has been silent on Bush's call to ask ALL the soft money attacts to stop. Seem's to me that Bush knocked Kerry off the moral high ground on that one. All Kerry would have had to do is show (for once) he's consistent. Instead, he'd rather attack Bush and let his soft money groups keep punching while demanding the pro-Bush groups stop. Just continues to prove Kerry not worthy of the office.

    Second - lets not forget where all this started. Kerry and his comrades STARTED the whole thing by attacking Bush's military record. If you do something like that, you'd better be squeaky clean. Kerry is obviously not clean in the matter and has suffered (justifiable) attacks in return. IT was a clear tactical mistake on Kerry's part - he had a lot more to loose, and is losing it.
     
  16. Aug 25, 2004 #96 of 126
    Lyle_JP

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    No, I didn't, and deleted for saying so. Oh, that wasn't nice? Calling people "liar" isn't either. :mad:
     
  17. Aug 25, 2004 #97 of 126
    Bogy

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    Lyle, that is uncalled for.
     
  18. Aug 25, 2004 #98 of 126
    Lyle_JP

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    Oh, but calling me a liar isn't? Where I'm from Bogy, "the deuce" isn't anywhere as rude as calling someone a liar.
     
  19. Aug 25, 2004 #99 of 126
    toenail

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    Hey, enjoy the moniker. You have something in common with Bush's predecessor. Perhaps you could run for President. :)
     
  20. RichW

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    Well here is the geographic qualification for the VSM:

    Vietnam and contiguous waters, as used herein, is defined as an area which includes Vietnam and the water adjacent thereto within the following specified limits: From a point on the East Coast of Vietnam at the juncture of Vietnam with China southeastward to 21 N. Latitude, 108° 15'E. Longitude; thence, southward to 18° N. Latitude, 108° 15'E. Longitude; thence southeastward to 17° 30'N. Latitude, 111° E. Longitude; thence southward to 11° N. Latitude; 111° E. Longitude, thence southwestward to 7° N. Latitude, 105° E. Longitude; thence westward to 7° N. Latitude, 103° E. longitude, thence northward to 9° 30'N. Latitude, 103° E. Longitude, thence northeastward to 10° 15'N. Latitude, 104° 27'E. Longitude, thence northward to a point on the West Coast of Vietnam at the juncture of Vietnam with Cambodia.

    So to say Kerry wasn't in Vietnam before November 1968 is a lie!
     
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