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SWM16 install requires 2 wires to inside?

Discussion in 'DIRECTV Installation/MDU Discussion' started by LiQiCE, Aug 25, 2013.

  1. LiQiCE

    LiQiCE Mentor

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    Feb 13, 2006
    Northern...
    Ah - yes there is a ground nearby that hooks up to the main ground I'm assuming (there is a huge ground wire that connects to the main copper water pipe). The Dish is currently hooked up to a ground outside, that is also connected to the eletricity meter and the other stuff out there.
     
  2. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    There is one other reason it might be better to balance the two outputs of a SWM16. Higher numbered SWM channels are at higher frequencies, and if anything is marginal about your install (long lengths, using RG59 instead of RG6, etc.) the problems are more likely to show up first at higher frequencies. In such a case you might have things work OK with 5 tuners on SWM1 and 4 tuners on SWM2, but have problems with 8 tuners on SWM1 and 1 tuner on SWM2.

    You can also use smaller splitters when the two sides are balanced, which is again helpful in marginal installs. I know people here seem inordinately obsessed with using the smallest splitter possible, but in some cases such as when you have a very long run to one or more of the receivers, it can make a difference. Of course, if you had one super long run to a receiver, having it directly connected to one of the SWM outputs with no splitter may be the only thing that gets you there, so in such a case it you might want an unbalanced SWM16.
     
  3. peds48

    peds48 Genius. DBSTalk Club

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    Then you can use the water pipe ground wire to bond the DirecTV system
     
  4. LiQiCE

    LiQiCE Mentor

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    Northern...
    Thanks for everyone's help! I am glad I was able to post this and think things through before the DTV installer shows up.

    I called DTV, and they noted I may need a dish relocation on the appointment. Since I already am getting a free "Genie Install" (which is what the DTV CSR setup so I could get a SWM16 installed) - I don't think I'd have to pay anything additional for the dish relocation. The CSR said I wouldn't need to - so I hope they're right!

    I am going to ask the installer to run 4 cables directly inside the house and put the SWM16 inside and then run 2 cables the length of the basement to get to where my coax cables collect.

    Appreciate everyone's help with this - will post back up after everything is completed!

    For now, I have my HR23 set to a single tuner.
     
  5. CDJohnson25

    CDJohnson25 Mentor

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    On a long...
    IMHO, if you want your installer to run more than 1 line in, especially 4, you should spend a few bucks and install conduit to run the group of wires from outside to in. Get conduit big enough for 6 or more lines, for future modifications. (remember to elbow the conduit down, and get either a head piece or spray foam to seal the conduit on the outside from bugs.)

    I just built a new house, and am kicking myself for not doing this....
     
  6. LiQiCE

    LiQiCE Mentor

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    Northern...
    If I go the conduit route and spray foam around the outside of the conduit - how do you prevent bugs from crawling inside the conduit? I would think spray foaming inside the conduit would defeat the purpose of using the conduit in the first place - but I wouldn't want bugs crawling inside through the conduit.

    Right now there are only a few cables coming inside and they have putty around them to seal them from the outside.
     
  7. CDJohnson25

    CDJohnson25 Mentor

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    On a long...
    I should have clarified that part. If your conduit on the exterior doesn't go into the ground, seal the end with a little spray foam - just enough to fill the end. If you need to add/remove cables, you can just clean out the bit 'o foam. :D
     
  8. LiQiCE

    LiQiCE Mentor

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    Got it - thanks! :)
     
  9. LiQiCE

    LiQiCE Mentor

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    Northern...
    Really annoyed - DTV Installers are out right now (Mastech - contractor). At first everything seemed cool - they needed a 40 foot ladder so 2 guys came and I explained what I wanted done and they said it'd be no problem, took down the old dish and brought it to the other side of the house ready to install the new dish. Because there is a deck on that side, they said the installer wouldn't need more than the normal 28 foot ladder and they left.

    The actual installed showed up - and immediately said he can't relocate the dish. He said for a Genie Upgrade he would have run the SWM-16's 2nd cable along the outside of the house to get enough tuners. But the dish is already taken down - so now he says he wants $99 to relocate the dish and to run the 4 cables from the dish to the inside to cover the extra cable he needs. After talking to him he basically refused to run the 4 cables inside the house saying it would take too much cable and he doesn't have enough cable to do it. He also said that running the 4 cables a longer distance would give a poor signal and the dish is only allowed to be 150 ft from the switch (is this true?) - and the 4 cables would be more than 150 ft to get to the inside of the house. I tried to get him to just run 4 cables down and inside the house and mount the SWM directly on the other side of the wall inside but he didn't want to hear about that suggestion either.

    Instead he is leaving the SWM-16 up on the roof with the dish and running 2 cables down along the side of the house and inside to where my coax cables collect for a fee of $50.

    Considering DTV already agreed that the dish would need to be relocated and put it into the service call, I think its BS that they're charging an extra $50 and I'm not even getting what I wanted. But I guess the $100 cost for the install ($50 to DTV, and $50 to the installer) is still cheaper than buying my own SWM16 and then the headache of doing it myself.

    For grounding - they ran a ground cable for each of the 2 cable SWM runs inside the house and grounded it to the main plumbing ground. Is that sufficient?

    The installer did agree to replace my HR23-700 with an HR24 though!

    Hopefully when they finish they'll have done a good job at least... definitely no tip for them considering I had to pay an extra $50.

    Also - are you supposed to disconnect the receivers when you're doing work like relocating the dish? I asked the installers and they said no - but I thought you're supposed to?
     
  10. peds48

    peds48 Genius. DBSTalk Club

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    I would not have paid a dime. I would of call DirecTV and complain. The SWM 16 should been inside the house or some other place but not the roof.

    For grounding - they ran a ground cable for each of the 2 cable SWM runs inside the house and grounded it to the main plumbing ground. Is that sufficient? No is not, the dish and coax should be grounded to the switch and a ground #10 should be run from the switch to the ground source. This cable cannot be longer than 20 ft

    Also - are you supposed to disconnect the receivers when you're doing work like relocating the dish? I asked the installers and they said no - but I thought you're supposed to? No, you leave the receivers connected.
     
  11. LiQiCE

    LiQiCE Mentor

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    Northern...
    I plan to complain at least about the $50 install.

    The ground is inside the house - I'm assuming there is a ground from the dish to the switch but it doesn't hit the ground source for about 100 ft at least since it goes from the switch all the way down to ground level, inside the house and runs across to the middle of the house.
     
  12. peds48

    peds48 Genius. DBSTalk Club

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    Then that is wrong. I'd call and complain and have them come back out again to do it right
     
  13. LiQiCE

    LiQiCE Mentor

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    Northern...
    So with my installation, how do you recommend it be grounded? The dish is now on the other side of the house, which means the electric meter / ground that was used previously is on the other side of the house.

    The dish and switch are up on the roof, and then there are 2 coax cables running down the house and they run inside the home. Since there is nowhere to ground it at the point of entry into the house, what should be done?

    Previously on the SWM-LNB, the single cable ran into a grounding block and then into the house.
     
  14. peds48

    peds48 Genius. DBSTalk Club

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    Four cables down to inside the house one of them has the "messenger" ground wire. this ground wire goes to the switch. from the switch you use a #10 to the water pipe with a ground strap
     
  15. slice1900

    slice1900 Well-Known Member

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    I thought grounding was supposed to take place before the coax enters the building? Or is this sort of the 'best you can do' under the circumstances, without driving a new ground rod and connecting it to the ground rod on the other side of the house (which would be ideal, but let's face it, that will cost a lot and thus isn't likely to be done unless the homeowner pays for it)

    If you didn't have a water pipe available near the switch (or your water pipes were PEX) would grounding to the center screw of an electrical outlet you know is properly wired/grounded be an acceptable alternative?
     
  16. LiQiCE

    LiQiCE Mentor

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    Northern...
    I heard the distance from the dish to the switch is not supposed to exceed ~40 ft - running the switch inside the house would exceed that distance quite a bit, do you think that will be a problem?
     
  17. compnurd

    compnurd Hall Of Fame

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    you were misinformed. i believe it is closer to 200 ft
     
  18. veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    The 45' is the recommended limit from the dish to SWiM.
    To go 200', you'd need RG11 and/or an amp.
     
  19. LiQiCE

    LiQiCE Mentor

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    Feb 13, 2006
    Northern...
    So, if I put the switch inside - the run from the dish to switch would be closer to the 200' mark (maybe around 150-175 ft?) - and DTV installers generally don't use RG11 (I don't know if they install amps?) - are there any other solutions to ensure the grounding is correct / safe for my install?

    Just to summarize - the current setup is a Slimline-3LNB with a SWM16 connected on the roof and then the 2 output cables from the SWM16 run down with grounding wire (presumably the dish is grounded to the SWM16's ground) and then the 2 cables run down the house and inside where they connect to a 8-port splitter and the ground is bonded through the splitter to a grounding cable which connects to a grounding block on the main copper water pipe (which also has a huge ground cable connected to it that I presume is the main house ground).
     
  20. compnurd

    compnurd Hall Of Fame

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    Really?? From a powered SWM 16 to the LNB.. 45 feet??
     

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