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System deletes NFL ST Recordings

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by geaux1, Oct 22, 2006.

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  1. Oct 31, 2006 #81 of 127
    hasan

    hasan Well-Known Member

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    I like the idea, if we get an update this week and if it doesn't fix the issue, I'll try to remember to test it and report back. Thanks for taking the time to think this through, it's certainly worth a try.
     
  2. Oct 31, 2006 #82 of 127
    mtnagel

    mtnagel Hall Of Fame

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    Couldn't someone with Center Ice test it before Sunday? I thought someone said that the games go dark right after the game.

    I have never set up a manual recording, so I have no idea how easy it is to do this, but if it helps, it may be worth it.
     
  3. Oct 31, 2006 #83 of 127
    bighurtm

    bighurtm Cool Member

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    Noticed last night after the Caps/Flames game on Center Ice that D* has started showing the logo after the games rather than the screening going dark. Fell asleep before the game ended and woke up with the D* logo on the screen. The logo was not displaying after a game during the first couple of weeks of Center Ice (in fact, just noticed it in the last couple of days).

    Will record a game on Center Ice tonight to see if the displaying of the logo prevents the HR20 from deleting the recording. I will record from the guide rather than setting up a manual recording.
     
  4. Oct 31, 2006 #84 of 127
    bonscott87

    bonscott87 Cutting Edge: ECHELON '07

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    I'm not sure about Center Ice since I don't have it, but if you aren't blacked out to an HD game on 95 that station goes dark right away after the game is over. At least it did the last game I tried a week ago or so.
     
  5. Oct 31, 2006 #85 of 127
    mikepatt

    mikepatt Mentor

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    The problem I see with this workaround is that once the game ends, if the screen goes dark right after it ends, you will lose that recording. So you may get the first recording and even the second, but if the game goes into the third recording, say five minutes in, and then ends, then 10 minutes later the channel goes dark, you lose that recording, and miss the last five minutes (which we all know is usually the best part of the game!).

    Mike
     
  6. Oct 31, 2006 #86 of 127
    mtnagel

    mtnagel Hall Of Fame

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    Well yes that is true, but, at least on the 1 pm games, don't they usually do player interviews and then go to the studio for post game highlights/scores of other games? Doesn't this take at least a half hour? Don't know, just speculating.

    How about 15 minute shows :D
     
  7. Nov 2, 2006 #87 of 127
    sb999

    sb999 Cool Member

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    I am having the same problems with NBA League Pass. Tonight I was watching a game while it was being recorded. I was watching the 3rd quarter when the "live" game ended. The recording immediately stopped and was deleted as I watched in horror. Second time it has happened. It is definitely caused by the channel going dark and the HR20 then deleting the recording from the channel it thinks you don't have a right to be viewing.

    Called D* tech support and they said they have no reports of any such problem. Gee, what a surprise.
     
  8. Nov 2, 2006 #88 of 127
    mocciat

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    I recorded the knicks-grizzles game because this weekend is the freeview and it recorded the game, the the DTV splash for a few hours, and after that it stopped recording and was still in my vod just fine. I have had problems with the Sunday Ticket though.
     
  9. Nov 2, 2006 #89 of 127
    sb999

    sb999 Cool Member

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    I think that's the key. If you get a splash/logo screen (and usually music) the recording stays. If they shut the channel down you lose it. It seems to affect some channels and not others.
     
  10. Nov 2, 2006 #90 of 127
    mocciat

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    why don't they just put the splash and music on all the sports subscription chanells?
     
  11. Nov 2, 2006 #91 of 127
    matto

    matto Banned User

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    wastes expensive trasponder time
     
  12. Nov 2, 2006 #92 of 127
    mocciat

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    well they will have plenty of transponder time when everyone goes to a different provider because they can't record a game without babysitting the recording and making the unit virtually worthless
     
  13. Nov 3, 2006 #93 of 127
    islesfan44

    islesfan44 Banned User

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    The same problem happens with NHL Center Ice. I have talked to tech support and they are aware of the problem. They have re-connected my old TiVo at no charge to catch these games until they fix it.

    Any time the HR20 tries to record a channel you do not get, it deletes the recording to save disk space. Unfortunately, as soon as the game ends, the broadcast ends, and the channel goes dead. The HR20 thinks you don't get the channel and it dumps the recording.

    This comes directly from D* tech support.
     
  14. Nov 3, 2006 #94 of 127
    LameLefty

    LameLefty I used to be a rocket scientist

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    Not true. Once the games end and the splash screens kick in, that "channel" becomes completely virtualized; e.g., a copy of a single, very-low bit-rate feed mulitplexed with many other similar "channels" on a single transponder. Every NFLST "channel" showing the same splash screen is effectively tuned to the same feed, despite the specific "channel number" showing on your receiver. This has been confirmed over the years by folks who have the equipment to measure and monitor the feeds.

    The key to how gracefully the DVR records the game past the end time of the contest would seem to depend on how smoothly D* manages the transition from a "live" channel with a specific, independent bitstream for that game to that of the low-rate "virtualized" channel, and how well the receiver deals with the transition. Apparently the HR20 does handle the transition to a splash screen, it just doesn't handle a complete stoppage (e.g., black screen).
     
  15. Nov 5, 2006 #95 of 127
    LameLefty

    LameLefty I used to be a rocket scientist

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    Just bumping this long, tired thread. I lost my first NFLST game today, the HD Superfan Cincinnati-Baltimore game. When I got home after my daughter's soccer match is shows as "Deleted". I don't know why or how as I wasn't home of course. I didn't have any SD games set to record today for comparison.
     
  16. Nov 5, 2006 #96 of 127
    Finster63

    Finster63 Cool Member

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    I have Center Ice and lose ~ 90% of the games that I record unattended.

    I noticed that they are scheduled to record for 6 hours...

    Earl: Any ideas on when we can expect a fix????
     
  17. Nov 6, 2006 #97 of 127
    hdtvfan0001

    hdtvfan0001 Well-Known Member

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    Strange.

    I'm now 27 out of 27 on successful NFL Sunday Ticket recorded and played-back games. Not one problem. All but 4 were pre-scheduled. Those 4 were recorded "on demand" as they began. All have perfect audio and video.

    It's really strange that while some folks (I know a number of others with equal success) have no problems, other have nothing but issues.
     
  18. Nov 6, 2006 #98 of 127
    sb999

    sb999 Cool Member

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    The reason some people have problems and others don't is some of the channels don't go dark and go to the 721 error. I notice on NBA League Pass about half will go to a Directv logo. If you get a logo or even a blank screen you will not lose the recording. It's only when they turn that particular channel off and you get a 721 notice that you will lose the recording.

    After spending most of the weekend on the phone with multiple technical people it appears to be related to the Macrovision software they use for DRM. Making my living in the computer business I am very familure with DRM issues and the train wreck that is the Macrovision software. I am guessing that this DRM software has been programmed to automatically delete any programs that it finds that were recorded from channels you don't receive. When a channel is turned off and you get the 721 notice as far as the DRM software is concerned you have no right to view a recording from that channel and therefore stops recording and deletes it. I haven't been able to determine if it will delete a recording that has been stopped and saved though.

    The simple answer is for Directv to not turn the channel off until shortly after the designated ending of the time period - usually 6 hours - so the program at least gets saved. Or, they could modify their software to not delete recordings in progress when channels go dark. Just have the software stop recording but SAVE it. But knowing how Macrovision likes their software to work they probably can't do the latter.

    The Macrovision DRM software is why this is only affecting the HR-20. None of the other DVRs are using this horrid DRM software.
     
  19. Nov 9, 2006 #99 of 127
    sb999

    sb999 Cool Member

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    I was able to finally save and watch an NBA League Pass game last night. The reason? The channel didn't go dark at the end of the game. It went to a logo and music and therefore continued to record until I told it to stop. Such a simple solution yet they can't seem to implement it across all premium sports package channels. =\
     
  20. 911medic

    911medic Godfather

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    Bumping this thread, as I lost my first ST recording to the mysterious "deleted" bug today.

    Tried recording my Cowboys game on ST channel 716. Come home from work tonight and find it in the history as deleted.

    Last week, recorded the Cowboys game on ST channel 712. No problem, recorded fine, viewed fine.

    The difference--other than the channel? This week, my oldest boy watched part of the game and left the box tuned to the ST channel. Last week this didn't happen. I know there have been a few issues with the box when the buffer is full, so I wonder if there's an issue when the buffer on the channel being recorded is full, then the game ends.

    I know it's been hypothesized that the recording is deleted when the channel goes blank after a game ends, but when I turned the TV/box on tonight after getting home from work, it was displaying the usual NFL Sunday Ticket gray screen. Perhaps the channel was blank for a while immediately after the game, I don't know.

    But perhaps it's useful info that for me, it only occurred when the actual ST channel that was being recorded was also tuned to, and therefore the buffer on that channel was being used. Just another piece of info to hopefully help the software people correct this (unless it's alrady been corrected in the 0xEB version, which I don't have yet).
     
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