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The adventure continues... WD Caviar Black?

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by rsblaski, Mar 2, 2012.

  1. Mar 2, 2012 #1 of 46
    rsblaski

    rsblaski Icon

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    Some of you may recall my previous thread about my damaged external hard drive. Well, because of the Thailand flood, even WD has a problem getting an exact replacement.
    I just received notice that WD is sending me a WD30EURS. I know not all three terabytes will be able to be used, but maybe someday D* will allow for it.
     
  2. Mar 2, 2012 #2 of 46
    CCarncross

    CCarncross Hall Of Fame

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    I would not accept the caviar black in place of the AV-GP green drive....
     
  3. Mar 5, 2012 #3 of 46
    Wilhite

    Wilhite AllStar

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    I got an offer for a WD2002FAEX-007BA0 2TB Caviar Black drive in place of my WD20-EVDS that I recently returned.

    I rejected it. If I wanted a drive to use for data, the Caviar Black might have been a good swap. I'm holding out to get a like replacement though for use in my DVR.
     
  4. Mar 5, 2012 #4 of 46
    TomCat

    TomCat Broadcast Engineer

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    Why tempt fate? Other drives are proven; this is not. It is almost like asking for trouble.

    Remember, one of the primary ways of getting more data storage on a HDD is to make the sectors physically smaller (for the same byte size). That brings with it an obvious increase in risk of failure. 1 TB is safer than 2 TB, although 2 TB is proven to be a reliable enough trade-off for the increased space. But isn't 475 hours of HD enough? Do we want a further trade-off in order to get 700 hours of HD on a HDD?

    On the other hand, go for broke (I'll hold your coat for you). We who are cautious benefit greatly from those who are not. :)

    Pioneers get the arrows; settlers get the land.
     
  5. Mar 6, 2012 #5 of 46
    nsolot

    nsolot AllStar

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    I used a 1.5 TB Caviar Black on an HR22 for about 2 years. No problems.
     
  6. Mar 6, 2012 #6 of 46
    bpratt

    bpratt Godfather

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    I've used a 750 GB Caviar Black on my two HR21-700s for over 4 years with no problems.
     
  7. Mar 7, 2012 #7 of 46
    byrd

    byrd Legend

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    I'm confused.... What's the matter with the Caviar Black drives? I have an Acer Easystore server at home. It currently has 2 1TB Caviar Black drives (WD1001FALS) and 2 1.5TB Caviar Black drives (WD1501FASS). The 1TB drives are almost 2.5 years old. The 1.5TB are a year old at this point. I've never had any issues.

    I originally got Caviar Black drives because they are faster have a larger cache. I stream video from the Acer Easystore through my PS3 to my TV. I don't find them to be loud at all. The fan in the Acer is much louder than the drives. I think the greens are more energy efficient, but when considering the 52" Flatscreen, Amp, Speakers, HR-24, and the Acer itself, the difference in power draw is negligible.

    I'm just curious why other folks steer clear of them.
     
  8. Mar 7, 2012 #8 of 46
    Chuck W

    Chuck W Icon

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    I think WD is still having some serious issues with the 2tb size(ie. popular) ones. I just had an issue with a 2TB WD Live network drive I use to store my ripped movies and put in an advanced RMA.

    I waited almost 3 weeks for a replacement and when I finally received it(this past Friday), it was the 3tb model. Not that I'm complaining, as 3tb instead of 2tb is fine for my drive's purpose, but I'm just making a point that it seems to be the 2tb ones in general that are in the shortest supply.
     
  9. Mar 7, 2012 #9 of 46
    TBoneit

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    Or it could be that many people are still wary (Not Weary) of 3Tb drives there is much less demand for them.

    Or it could be, We don't have that model & size. Lets keep them happy and give a bigger more expensive drive.
     
  10. rsblaski

    rsblaski Icon

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    Jul 6, 2003
    Southern Nevada
    That is exactly what happened with me. I first received a notice that WD was having a supply problem for the green 2Tb drive. Then I was offered a choice between the black 2Tb or wating for the green. (That was when I started this thread looking for advice.) The next day, before I responded to their offer of the black, I received notice that they were shipping me a 3Tb green. I installed it with no problem and it is happily working on my HR20-700. I know there is a wasted Tb of space, but I still have the 2Tb of space I originally had.
    Perhaps someday, that extra Tb will be useable on D* dvrs.
    btw, they really are expensive. Just a quick check found the cheapest at $199 at B&H. Most are selling for @ $225.
     
  11. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    When we were testing various HDDs, the price of the Black Caviars was greater than the Greens. At that time, the largest HDDs we could get at a decent price (and that was pretty expensive) were the Seagate Cudas at 1.5TBs. Then the Green WD 2TB drives came out and nobody really bothered with the Black Caviars.

    Simply put, we overlooked them.

    Rich
     
  12. CCarncross

    CCarncross Hall Of Fame

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    Most if not all of the Caviar Black and Blue drives are 7200rpm, so they spin faster than the Green models, take a little more energy to operate, and run hotter. None of us want more heat in/near our dvr's, and they are overkill. AFAIK, they will work fine, but most of them are not rated for 24/7 AV type use like the AV drives are....
     
  13. byrd

    byrd Legend

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    Apr 29, 2009

    I'll concede that temperature might be an issue. Not sure if it's really an issue (if your DVR isn't fully enclosed in a cabinet), but I can see the potential. As for more power.... as I mentioned above, if power was an issue, we probably would be watching TV on large flat screens with high power amps, etc. The drives are probably a small contributor. And I'm not sure I've ever heard that speed is overkill with regards to hard drives. Fast access to LARGE amounts of data can't be a bad thing, especially with how data is used in a DVR. I'm sure they are louder, but I have 4 of them spinning 24/7 right next to my in my Acer server, and I can never hear them (just the fan).
     
  14. bwaldron

    bwaldron Impossible Dreamer

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    I think the point was that the fast access times aren't needed, given how a drive is used in a DVR. Doesn't hurt, but doesn't really help either.
     
  15. nsolot

    nsolot AllStar

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    Heat & power consumption favor the green drives

    Performance favors the black drives

    That said......

    I'm not trying to open a brand new can of worms, but the black drives come with a 5 year warranty, whereas the green drives have a 2 or 3 year warranty. That send me a message about how long one might expect the drive to last before it......................................

    goes kaboom
     
  16. byrd

    byrd Legend

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    Apr 29, 2009
    Hmmmm..... Has anyone ever really tested this theory? I'm mean skipping forward/backward, accessing video (starting/stopping/pausing/fast forward/rewind), deleting shows, most of which is in HD. This is all done while simultaneously recording to the drive, often times simultaneously recording 2 shows, not to mentions any additional drive functions that may be completed at time. Now a days, we're in the multiple terabyte size range. That's a LOT of data to search through. With the quantity of data that is continuously being written and erased, it's easy to imagine things getting pretty fragmented over time. I can easily imagine that faster access times and larger caches can be beneficial. I would dare to say that my DVR hard drive is worked a heck of a lot harder, on a more regular basis then my PC or laptop.

    Even if the the benefit is small, my original confusion was caused by folks above stating that they would flat out reject a Black drive in lieu of a Green drive. I can see where there may be a slight trade off between two (temperature vs speed), but I don't know if it should rise to the occasion to flat out reject them out of hand. And nsolot's comment about the warranty time is good point. One would imagine that Western Digital has contucted some sort of reliability testing on these drives in order to come up with those numbers.

    Let me finish by saying that I'm CERTAINLY not running out to replace the stock drive in my HR-24. It works, I'm happy with it, and it will stay as long as it is operating condition. However, after my experience with multiple Black drives, I don't think I would have any issues installing one as a replacement if one was offered to me.
     
  17. CCarncross

    CCarncross Hall Of Fame

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    Yes, I tested it extensively as I have upgraded to faster and larger drives...tried a caviar black and saw zero performance improvements. So I went back to the AV-GP drives, for lower heat, and usually better reliability. Heat is a natural enemy...
     
  18. byrd

    byrd Legend

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    Apr 29, 2009
    Very interesting. That's good to know. I wonder why the Black drives have a longer warranty period than the Green (5 years vs 2 years!) if they are less reliable? I'd imagine that the warranty period is a indicator or overall reliability. But I suppose that's a question for Western Digital and not DBStalk.
     
  19. allenn

    allenn Icon

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    I thought only AV-GP drives would work in the D* DVRs. Interesting to hear that you can use other types of SATA HDDs.
     
  20. mgavs

    mgavs Legend

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    Jun 17, 2007
    Be careful, there are many caviar black drives and some work in HR2x and some wont. I tried a WD2002FAEX in my HR20-100 and it initialized but caused reboots every 5 minutes. Tried several times but no luck. I even jumpered it to the slower speed and had the same issue. I wound up using it for backups in Mac and Linux machines with no problems. I put an older drive into the HR20. BTW, green drives may be on the way out. Seagate is dropping them and WD may follow. Savings average $2 year and newer drives run cooler. FYI, I have 3 year old "green" drives and the WD2002FAEX runs much quieter and cooler which is why I wanted to use it in the HR20. Now I have cool quiet backups....
     

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