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The new Fiat/Chrysler/GM...well, GM Europe?

Discussion in 'The OT' started by phrelin, May 3, 2009.

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  1. Jun 8, 2009 #61 of 101
    dodge boy

    dodge boy R.I.P. Chris Henry

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    This is great news, I hope the movement gains momentum, we can make everything we need here, cars, TVs, Computers, DVRs, steel, everything and give our money to fellow Americans when we shop instead of sending it overseas.....

    Would be nice to stop the globalists in their tracks and get out of the WTO....
     
  2. Jun 8, 2009 #62 of 101
    Richard King

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    and no one will be able to afford anything.
     
  3. Jun 8, 2009 #63 of 101
    Richard King

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    If they go chapter 7, any individual brands will be sold off, just as Saturn and Hummer are being sold off from GM. Of course the brands that have no value may not bring much, but that's the way it goes. Proceeds from the sales will go to bondholders and secured creditors as 200+ years of American contract law proscribes.
     
  4. Jun 8, 2009 #64 of 101
    dodge boy

    dodge boy R.I.P. Chris Henry

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    For years everything was made here and bought here....

    As much as you defend the practices of those backward countries you should just pack up and leave... You rip on everything American and especially the middle class... Why are you at war with the middle class in this country? You want everyone to earn less..... Or you want all of or jobs to go overseas.....
    Maybe your broke down poor butt should do something to make yourself more valuable instead of trying to drag everyonelse down.......
     
  5. Jun 8, 2009 #65 of 101
    dodge boy

    dodge boy R.I.P. Chris Henry

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    keeping Americans working is way more important than a few bond holders.....

    So is the new Challenger for that matter.... :D
     
  6. Jun 8, 2009 #66 of 101
    Supramom2000

    Supramom2000 In Loving Memory of Onyx-2/23/09

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    You mean the middle class who almost exclusively support Wal-Mart and buy Chinese made goods? If they wanted to buy American they could shop at Sears like those of us who do it by CHOICE. And I am sick to death of the whole "made in America only" mantra. Huyndai (or however you spell it), Toyota, Mazda, Nissan - all have plants here. My Isuzu was the clone of a Honda and my Mazda was a clone of a Ford.

    America is about opportunity and freedom. Freedom to choose to succeed or to fail and try again. The government keeping the lights on is the antithesis of our founding. I think what you are espousing is anti-American and maybe you should think about leaving before you cast stones.
     
  7. Jun 8, 2009 #67 of 101
    phrelin

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    It would take 2 to 4 years to tool up, but there are plenty of Chinese companies that have enough cash or available credit with Chinese banks to expand here once we get used to a slightly different standard of living.
    We could study India (or the U.S circa 1933) for an economic model and possibly produce $4,000 cars made by workers costing the Chinese companies $48 a day. If we pay everyone minimum wage with no benefits, the average family could still afford food. Rice and beans without any processing or or that pesky, hard-to-dispose-of packaging. Maybe we could produce clothing such as jeans that would sell at WalMart for $14 or a T-shirt that would sell for $6 so everyone could get something new at Christmas.:rolleyes:
     
  8. Jun 8, 2009 #68 of 101
    dodge boy

    dodge boy R.I.P. Chris Henry

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    Let me rephrase this:
    You seem to know the price of everything and the cost of nothing....
    Look up Youngstown Ohio and you can see what globalism did to my area....
    If the Lordstown plant (they build the cobalt and will build the Cruise) closes my town will be a ghost town....
    I get very defensive over loosing more jobs due to "free trade"....
    I've seen Barbershops, restaurants, independent gas stations, pool halls, etc. close because no one has the "disposable" incomes they used to. I am fortunate as I was able to go to college, not everyone is college material and should make better than $8.00 per hour.
    I would love to see the "rust belt" get revived, it would be tough even without free trade. My best friend is a machinist for W.C.I. a local steel mill, it got bought by a Russian company and well, it's pretty much idled for now, not because of the Russians but because of the steel that W. allowed China to dump on our market..... Shamefull......
    We need a labor party in this country so we can be self sufficient. Our economy is credit based and needs to be production based, the only way to do that is to rebuild the production side to move people from service jobs to production.....
     
  9. Jun 8, 2009 #69 of 101
    dodge boy

    dodge boy R.I.P. Chris Henry

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    Protecting American jobs falls under "promoting the general welfare".....
    And on that note I am out of this thread.......

    Look at this thread....

    http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=151443

    Where are they going to work, China... Tell them they need to make less and skip a meal so you can buy garbage from Walmart....
     
  10. Jun 8, 2009 #70 of 101
    Richard King

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    Speaking of out of whack.... http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=2110719&postcount=7
    I actually go out of my way to buy American made products when I can find them. I also, personally, try to boycott ANYTHING made in China. I spend extra to buy American (or at least non Chinese) if I have to. I am part of the middle class and have not declared war on myself. I have commented MANY times here about buying American whenever possible. I have a long record here for stating so. I don't, however, believe in throwing away over 200 years of law and the constitution in a power grab.
     
  11. Jun 8, 2009 #71 of 101
    Supramom2000

    Supramom2000 In Loving Memory of Onyx-2/23/09

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    As I stated, I shop at Sears and buy American. You skipped my point entirely and went on the attack. It IS the middle class who is shopping at Wal-Mart. The very people you are suggesting are on the losing end of this deal. And as Richard stated, he also does not buy Chinese unless there is no other choice. Again, freedom to choose - the American Way.

    If you want to go the route of isolationism, then you will need to shut down the borders entirely and turn to a police state. And you are talking about ridding the US of capitalism. I don't think that is promoting the general welfare.
     
  12. Jun 8, 2009 #72 of 101
    phrelin

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    Now that's something I started saying 25 years ago when we started talking big time about the "information age." This is the dumbest concept: "a shift from traditional industry that the Industrial Revolution brought through industrialization, to an economy based around the manipulation of information."

    You can't eat information about food or drive information about cars! You first have to bring tangible products into being without depending on slave labor and then, if you can afford to, manipulate information about those products. There is little or no value to knowing where my 10 unemployed closest friends are having lunch if all any of us can afford is a bowl of rice because we are paying the cost of a steak dinner to be able to "tweet" about it. We have weird values.
     
  13. Jun 8, 2009 #73 of 101
    James Long

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    Hmmm ... I thought the guy you quoted was the one guy you could agree with 100%. :D
     
  14. Jun 9, 2009 #74 of 101
    SamC

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    This is the other of the Two Big Lies that the "American" auto industry tells.

    We are the only "Americans".

    First, GM makes cars in 34 countries, and parts in two dozen more. It has been making cars on that basis for nearly 90 years. Ford, and to a more or less extend across historical periods, Chrysler, are likewise global concerns. They have, or at least had, stockholders in all of the major capitalist countries, and were listed on all of the exchanges.

    A Ford made in Europe from European parts and sold in Europe is a domestic car. In Europe.

    Second, Toyota, Hyundai/Kia, Nissan, Honda, Daimler, BMW, Mazda and many others make cars in the US and Canada. Have been doing so for nearly 30 years. Quite well.

    A Toyota made in the USA from American parts and sold in the USA is a domestic car. In the US of A.

    GM, et al, would have you believe that the death of GM, et al, is the death of American manufacturing. That simply is not true. Others, organized differently, working differently, producing different products, still make cars on this continent. In a real bankruptcy for either GM or Chrysler, the most probable result is that others, organized differently, working differently, will take over those plants and move forward in a more modern system.

    We have a Toyota plant nearby. Great jobs. Great company to work for. The economic heart of our community. Great people.

    Were not "Americans"?
     
  15. Jun 9, 2009 #75 of 101
    Richard King

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    We have one. You should check it out, sounds right up your alley. ;) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Labor_Party

    Never took any economics or history courses?
     
  16. Jun 9, 2009 #76 of 101
    djlong

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    ...because all other industrialized countries had their manufacturing base bombed out (WW2)

    Remember, this was also a problem during the Great Depression when the Smoot-Hawley Act became law and provoked worldwide protectionism.

    I challenge you to go to the rural areas in China. Take a look at a program put on the Discovery Channel last year called "The people's Republic of Capitalism" and see just where these Chinese workers are coming from.

    You've seen the effects in Youngstown, you say? I *guarantee* you that the people there are living in the lap of luxury when compared to the people flocking to new Chinese factories.

    Migrant workers in this country have it good compared to them.

    Go ahead and tell them that they have to work backbreaking labor in the summer in rice paddies (if they can find the work) so that some American worker can protect a $20/hour unskilled labor job.

    I heard these complaints about the Japanese in the 70s and the Koreans in the 80s. now it's the Chinese.

    We have to offer more if we're going to charge more. I have to keep studying and learning to keep my skills ahead of the curve - and this doesn't always come cheap.
     
  17. Jun 9, 2009 #77 of 101
    dodge boy

    dodge boy R.I.P. Chris Henry

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    Chinese jobs are the concern of the Chinese not us here in America... We should be more concerned with keeping those jobs here for our people instead of putting our people out of work. It's amazing how that simple concept is overlooked because someone wants to put the interests of a multi national corporation over the interest of their American neighbor's......
    Guess I am just more patriotic in that I want my neighbor to be able to get a good paying job.
     
  18. Jun 9, 2009 #78 of 101
    Supramom2000

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    If you want businesses to succeed all around the country, then you need to cut their taxes cut their regulations and keep government out of their way. What you are touting as saving American jobs is simply the nationalization of a huge corporation. Now the government (and a 31 year old law school student) will be in charge of making this corporation successful. They will be in charge of setting wages, regulations, telling them what they can and cannot build and how they can do it.

    Sorry, that is not a democratic replublic. That is socialism.
     
  19. Jun 9, 2009 #79 of 101
    HIPAR

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    Capitalism is like economic Darwinism. When weak enterprises fail, it's working at its best.

    --- CHAS
     
  20. Jun 9, 2009 #80 of 101
    phrelin

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