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The official Mac vs PC thread

Discussion in 'Tech Talk - Gadgets, Gizmos and Technology' started by Chris Blount, May 4, 2012.

  1. May 4, 2012 #21 of 127
    P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    I see you gonna switch to personal humiliation - good 'argument' dude !

    I have them more then in your house, don't worry. Stick with topic.

    As to "close" - I would say you are cheating (why) while compare 4 GB vs 6 GB, 500 GB vs 1 TB, Nvidia and AMD video cards. Bad argumentation, mister.
     
  2. May 4, 2012 #22 of 127
    lparsons21

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    It is part of the problem when trying to do the comparisons. Each one approaches the design differently. Almost impossible to do a part to part comparison since most machines aren't that much identical, especially when comparing the Mac to the Windows PC boxes. Some parts are the same, some aren't.

    But premium boxes from all of the major mfgs will come up to about the same price on a nearly like to like basis. Apple doesn't bother with less than premium designs, so you'll never find a bargain box from them. Different approach.
     
  3. May 4, 2012 #23 of 127
    Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Sorry... but you're dead wrong on this one. I can't give details because of NDAs, but suffice to say that I worked there writing technical manuals so I sat in technical meetings and saw design specs. There were more than one model that was the basis for design of a server and a PC... and the component differences between the PC model and the server model were nowhere near justifying the difference in the price-to-customer.

    Was this true for all models? No. Absolutely not... but there definitely were models that you could get a PC and save a ton of money over the server model and it was capable of running all the same software.

    I wrote books that only required minor changes for the PC version vs the server model.
     
  4. May 4, 2012 #24 of 127
    pfp

    pfp Whatever

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    I'm a PC guy. Nothing wrong with the mac but I have zero interest in learning a completely new OS.
     
  5. May 4, 2012 #25 of 127
    Charise

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    I'm not switching to an Apple for anything. I totally abhor their stance on how I will use my purchases and I don't want to use iTunes. The way their deal with publishers drove up prices for all e-books is a case in point. (No way to know how the lawsuits will end, but I've read a lot on this since the deal first reared its head and know who I feel instigated it.)

    I'm not a computer expert, though I feel I'm "entitled" to use a computer. I don't have problems with my Windows 7 and Vista computers and am able to do everything I need/want to with them.

    About Office, that's another story.
    I always say I want to throttle the woman who led the update that started the ribbon, but "choke somebody out" is close enough. I'm still mad about it too though it's 5 years old!! :D

    Yeah, I can carry a grudge. ;)
     
  6. May 4, 2012 #26 of 127
    dpeters11

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    Yes, but remember their computers are more of a side business. They sold 5 million, but 37 million iPhones in the first quarter.
     
  7. May 4, 2012 #27 of 127
    Chris Blount

    Chris Blount Creator of DBSTalk Staff Member Administrator DBSTalk Gold Club

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    LOL, that's how I was. Just never say never. :)
     
  8. May 4, 2012 #28 of 127
    P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    No need to bring NDA here ...
    I did a lot of work (not writing papers, but with HW & SW) on Compaq[HP], IBM, Dell (and Sun) servers and know them pretty good down to component level. Well It would be long post if we will go into details ... Just a few differences what will cost you double at least:
    - hot-swap RAM DIMMs
    - hot swap PCI[-X] cards (NIC at least)
    - registered RAM with ECC
    - dual-triple power supplies/fans
    - all capacitors are rated 105+ C
    - the servers pass manuf. burning test for 24/7 for a week (some for a month)
    - RAID cards with battery backup and own cash RAM
    - <need more ?!>

    It would be enough to say server vs desktop will always have high price.
     
  9. May 4, 2012 #29 of 127
    Charise

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    Too old to switch now anyway. You're too young, Chris, to know how that feels! :D
     
  10. May 4, 2012 #30 of 127
    Go Beavs

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    I primarily use Macs at home because, for the most part, they "just work". Networking and file sharing is simple, bonjour is a real nice feature. I also worry much less about viruses too. Yes, I know Macs can get them but the reality is there's just not that many out there compared with PC viruses.

    I also use Windows at work and I have to admit that Windows 7 is a pretty slick OS. I do like it much better than XP.

    I used to be adamant that "Macs are better" then I switched and held that "PCs are better". Then I switched again and have come to the conclusion that I should keep an open mind. Competition really is a great thing!
     
  11. May 4, 2012 #31 of 127
    P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    In corporate environment Macs are... ughm is not what IT Dept would like to see ... Royal pain in the a$$. :D
     
  12. May 4, 2012 #32 of 127
    dpeters11

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    Yeah, when my users are having an issue with their home system, I dread when it's a Mac. When they don't know how to use it, and I don't use them, it's not good.
     
  13. May 4, 2012 #33 of 127
    Herdfan

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    Teays...
    But does that take into account everything in the iWork suite? Windows users have to buy most of those type of programs separately.

    I was PC until February 2011. My wife/daughter's PC died and we went to look at new ones. My daughter, then 10 wanted a Mac because she had played with one at BB. So we went home with a Mini. I played with it some and 2 weeks later I had a new MBP. Then when the iMac's got a refresh, I got one of those.

    Just waiting to see when the new iMac refresh happens if it does as rumored have a matte screen option. Will sell my current iMac for 75-80% of what I paid for it and get the new one.

    They make some things so simple. I .pdf a lot of Word docs. OSX has that feature built in. No fiddling with other programs. Simple.

    I have a dual boot system with VMWare because I needed Quickbooks. This past January I started the year running dual which was a PITA, but I had to know if QB Mac is good enough. It is different, but my 1Q numbers matched and I am QB Mac only going forward.

    I still have a couple of programs that are Windows only, but I am actively searching for replacements.

    You would probably be surprised at how many Windows users think a MBP is the best Windows computer. They completely remove OSX and make them Windows only.

    It rocks. I have a networked color laser. My Windows machines would "lose" it about once a month and I would have go through and set it up again. The Macs found it immediately and and have not lost it since. This is really handy when I am not home and my daughter wants to use the color laser to print a school project.

    Plus, when my daughter has friends over and they see that 27" iMac on my desk, she says it makes me the "cool" dad. :lol:
     
  14. May 4, 2012 #34 of 127
    Stewart Vernon

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    Unlike what Microsoft has done over the years?

    About every other Windows release has been a major interface and use change hasn't it? Don't get me wrong, I used Windows 2000 for a long happy time... and adjusting to Windows XP after that wasn't difficult but it was different and a lot of things moved around.

    There were big changes between the early Windows versions too... and Windows Vista was big changes. I haven't seen Windows 7, however.

    What I do know, however, is that Windows and OS X have begun to share a lot of similarities in look and feel... so I think that operations gap is mostly bridged for most users. Until you start digging under the hood, a lot of stuff looks and feels the same to me.

    Like? You know Microsoft has some restrictions too, right? They integrate some things into the operating system that you can't easily (sometimes at all) remove... like how IE is all into everything even if you like Firefox or Chrome... you still are forced to use IE sometimes. That seems a lot (to me) like the times on my Mac when I have to use Safari instead of Firefox to visit certain Web sites correctly.

    Also... if you really really read the EULA that you agree to upon installing Microsoft Windows, you might be surprised how many restrictions are in place by Microsoft, including how you are merely "leasing" the operating system and don't technically own it.

    You don't have to... well, if you want to purchase things from the iTunes store, then you have to... but except for the Apps that have chosen to be exclusive to the Mac App store, you can get your music and movies elsewhere if you want, and most Apps still as well.

    You're reading the Kool-aid a bit here. The publishers wanted those higher prices. They didn't like Amazon bargain-binning their eBooks. Yes, Apple had a hand in things... but don't pretend the book publishers didn't like and want the higher prices and if they could have strongarmed Amazon (oh wait, they kind of did) they would.
     
  15. May 4, 2012 #35 of 127
    Stewart Vernon

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    Sorry, but you didn't read my first post correctly and you are making the same mistake that many Apple vs PC users do...

    You are comparing features of high-end servers with low-end PCs... and that wasn't what I said at all.

    I said "some" and "might differ only slightly"... I never said "all servers are no better than desktop PCs"... I said some were, and you might be surprised sometimes to find out.

    I can't speak to current generations, especially since they sold to Lenovo... but prior to that, several server models were designed and developed to also be used as PC models or specialized PC/server models for a specific task... and those models were basically developed and tested as server models, then had a few components removed for features they wouldn't support on the PC model and then sold at a much lower PC pricepoint.

    The point I was making, though, was that the price difference was far greater in that case than the actual hardware difference. In fact, you used to be able to look up on the IBM Web site to find software for your particular PC desktop... and you would find that your PC and some server models shared the same software updates. I don't know if they have files that old online anymore for non-supported computers... but it was fairly common across their lower end server models and their higher end PCs to share a lot of stuff.

    So... if you compare high-end Servers to low-end PCs, that is worse than people who compare Apple iMacs to low-end PCs.

    iMacs need to be compared to high-end PCs. Similarly, low-end servers need to be compared to high-end PCs. High-end servers don't really have a comparison... nor do the low-end PCs.
     
  16. May 4, 2012 #36 of 127
    dpeters11

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    Not moving to Windows 8? That's pretty close to a new OS.
     
  17. May 4, 2012 #37 of 127
    lparsons21

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    It sure is. I got the public beta and can't figure out why MS wants to go 'metro' on the desktop. I can't see any advantage to it in that scenario and lots of disadvantages.

    Apple added Launchpad to OSX, which is similar to the ipad being all icons for programs, but they don't make it the default and I'm not even sure you can make it the default.
     
  18. May 4, 2012 #38 of 127
    bobnielsen

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    Apple's site has a version of Bonjour for Windows. It found my networked printer immediately after I had spent a few hours trying to configure Win7 to see it.
     
  19. May 4, 2012 #39 of 127
    bobnielsen

    bobnielsen Éminence grise

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    I found iSedora to be quite good as a DLNA server on my Mac. It allows me to separately customize the configuration for different clients.
     
  20. May 5, 2012 #40 of 127
    Charise

    Charise AllStar/Supporter DBSTalk Gold Club

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    Stewart,

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Charise
    I'm not switching to an Apple for anything. I totally abhor their stance on how I will use my purchases,

    Like? You know Microsoft has some restrictions too, right? They integrate some things into the operating system that you can't easily (sometimes at all) remove... like how IE is all into everything even if you like Firefox or Chrome... you still are forced to use IE sometimes. That seems a lot (to me) like the times on my Mac when I have to use Safari instead of Firefox to visit certain Web sites correctly.
    Yes, I do. And yet I manage to get Windows to work as I want. And I don't mind using IE9. I have been able to get all my old software to work well. I'm probably not as adventurous or demanding in what I do, but I seem to have found tricks over the years that most of my colleagues and students who I'm always told "grew up using computers" never seem to know.

    Also... if you really really read the EULA that you agree to upon installing Microsoft Windows, you might be surprised how many restrictions are in place by Microsoft, including how you are merely "leasing" the operating system and don't technically own it.
    Yes, and though I rarely completely read most EULAs now, I actually did read them when I first started using computers, so I don't think I would be very surprised.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Charise
    and I don't want to use iTunes.

    You don't have to... well, if you want to purchase things from the iTunes store, then you have to... but except for the Apps that have chosen to be exclusive to the Mac App store, you can get your music and movies elsewhere if you want, and most Apps still as well.
    I have asked about this, and according to people I know who own iPods, they aren't able to use anything except iTunes for their music on (at least older) Apple products. Perhaps these are the people who shouldn't be using computers? :D I trusted them when they said I couldn't put all my music from my computer to anything i___.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Charise
    The way their deal with publishers drove up prices for all e-books is a case in point.

    You're reading the Kool-aid a bit here. The publishers wanted those higher prices. They didn't like Amazon bargain-binning their eBooks. Yes, Apple had a hand in things... but don't pretend the book publishers didn't like and want the higher prices and if they could have strongarmed Amazon (oh wait, they kind of did) they would.
    No Kool-aid for years in my house. :) Of course, the publishers weren't happy. However, they did not change their pricing before Mr. Jobs's idea to make a deal with as many publishers as he could. So, yes, I do blame Apple for instigating this, as I said previously.
     

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