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The Penn State Scandal

Discussion in 'The OT' started by Lord Vader, Nov 7, 2011.

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  1. Nov 8, 2011 #21 of 369
    Lord Vader

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    Actually, the university canceled it after an emergency meeting of the Trustees.

    WSCR The Score Radio today has been discussing this (along with the Bears' unexpected win yesterday) and has been emphatically saying simply that Paterno ought to be fired today. Moreover, everyone involved in this in any manner should be terminated.
     
  2. Nov 8, 2011 #22 of 369
    Lord Vader

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    No he doesn't. He deserves what he gets, which should be an immediate resignation or termination.
     
  3. Nov 8, 2011 #23 of 369
    SayWhat?

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    I've been saying that about the Pope too, who not only didn't do anything to stop it, but was actively involved in the cover up of events at the Church in one of his jobs prior to appointment.
     
  4. Nov 8, 2011 #24 of 369
    Lord Vader

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    This isn't about the Pope; it's about Joe Paterno, who must resign today or be terminated today.
     
  5. Nov 8, 2011 #25 of 369
    dualsub2006

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    He should have done a lot more than he did to put a stop to what he KNEW was going on right under his old nose.

    The victims, who were all children, deserved that.
     
  6. Nov 8, 2011 #26 of 369
    Stewart Vernon

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    Without regard to the specifics of this case... we live in an odd society sometimes in terms of what one is expected to do when observing something wrong.

    People are labelled as a "rat" or "traitor" if they tell on people... this starts in school with kids, and is almost drilled into you... that you should stay out of other people's business... "don't tell on people" is a mantra encouraged to kids.

    Then, we have a situation where kids get abused... and they have to fight that mantra... Should I tell? I have been told not to tell.. and that I'm wrong for "tattling"... and when an adult is the abuser? It is confusing for a young kid to know who to trust and who to talk to.

    Then... when an adult observes something... How many times do we hear about someone witnessing something and not stepping forward? Various levels of crimes... adults still remember being brought up not to "tell" on other people.

    And then we have things like sports or the military... where people are further trained as adults to "keep it in the locker room"... "don't go outside the team"... "we handle things internally"... so you have to fight that.

    How many times has a whistleblower been the victim himself for daring to come forward? Spin this specific story around... The institution and people in question were generally respected people in the community, on campus, and around the country.

    IF a guy had come forward 10 years ago... don't you imagine there would have been people saying "why are you making this up?"

    Think about Justice Clarence Thomas... or Bill Clinton... or Herman Cain... not children, but being accused of harassing women... and there is a huge faction that comes out to defend and says "why are these people making stuff up?"

    IF you like someone... maybe respect them... it is hard for others to convince you that your guy did wrong. I imagine a lot of people wanted not to believe these things... and only one witness within the program, it was easy to "dismiss" McCreary as maybe having "mis-seen" something... and sweep it under the rug.

    I can almost guarantee you that for all the outrage here... and it is justified outrage... many of those outraged, will soon be on the doubting-thomas side of things the next scandal that breaks... and they will talk of the "traitor" who took something outside the locker room and "tattled" on his team.

    That kind of thinking is how we get here... with a person (allegedly) able to continue cycles of abuse for years without anyone stepping in to help the victims until the path of destruction is too big to hide under the rug.
     
  7. Nov 8, 2011 #27 of 369
    SayWhat?

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    That code of silence crap needs to stop. It's good that those involved in the cover up are being charged even though they weren't directly involved in the assaults.
     
  8. Nov 8, 2011 #28 of 369
    Carl Spock

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    You guys are much more vengeful than I can be.

    EDIT: The folks on sports talk radio today are much more vengeful than I can be. "You folks" are standing in for them as I can't respond to the nimrods I hear on the air.

    What has made Joe Paterno great for decades is that he's old school. Here, old school didn't work.

    While never socially acceptable, years ago pedophilia was handled quietly and discretely. That's the way JoePa handled it in 2002. Within channels.

    That isn't the way any more. (It wasn't even that way back in 2002. It was that way in the 1950s.) SayWhat? is right: "That code of silence crap needs to stop." But I am not going to condemn a man who has lived by old school standards all of his life, who is admired because he adheres to them, because they let him down this time.

    I'm not saying forgive and forget. Far from it. Paterno will pay for his mistake with his job and his reputation. But I am not going to forget the positive impact Paterno has had on thousands of college men over the years, and I honor him for that. I'd like for him to retire with as much dignity as he can muster.

    I'm not a Penn State supporter. I've never really cared for the team, beyond the fact they have the coolest helmets in college football. In an era when uniforms are designed with dozens of color coordinated combinations, Penn State's helmets are white with one black stripe down the middle. Old school. Just like their coach.
     
  9. Nov 8, 2011 #29 of 369
    Lord Vader

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    Stop making excuses. This is not a question of old school. It's a question of a man who failed to look out for children, who treated this as if it was no big deal.
     
  10. Nov 8, 2011 #30 of 369
    Lord Vader

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    From today's Pittsburgh Post Gazette

     
  11. Nov 8, 2011 #31 of 369
    The Merg

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    Just to add some fuel to the fire... There are plenty of comments about what JoePa should have done and what he didn't do. That being said, what about the janitor who witnessed the first incident and the grad student and her father that witnessed the second incident.

    In both those cases, they reported the incidents to the school and not the police. JoePa heard about the incident in 2002 and reported it to the AD. My only question is if these witnesses were so concerned about these kids, why didn't they call the police?

    - Merg
     
  12. Nov 8, 2011 #32 of 369
    SayWhat?

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    You are in a position of authority and know someone on your staff did harm to someone, or maybe more than one someone.

    You report it as required, then do nothing more.

    You notice that the person you reported is still at work in the same capacity, but do nothing to follow up your inquiry. Maybe you think it was looked into and determined to be unfounded.

    Later, another someone is harmed by the same person you reported, again, maybe more than one more someone.

    Should you be held responsible in part for the later attacks? Should you be accountable for not following up on your initial reports?

    I'm asking about civil or criminal liability, not 'morality'.
     
  13. Nov 8, 2011 #33 of 369
    Carl Spock

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    I never said he didn't make a terrible mistake. I am not willing to condemn the man because he did.

    I've heard the malarky today on talk radio that was repeated in the opinion piece you posted, Vader, that McQueary (the TA) should be fired, too. The Merg makes the same point. At Penn State, reporting this to Paterno was reporting this to the police. He was the law on campus. It was that way at Alabama under Bear Bryant, UNLV under Tarkanian or UCLA under Wooden. They often had more authority than even the college president.

    The blood lust that has risen in the past 24 hours is amazing.
     
  14. Nov 8, 2011 #34 of 369
    SayWhat?

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    Sorry, but unless he's carrying a badge and has arrest powers under state law, it ain't the same.
     
  15. Nov 8, 2011 #35 of 369
    Lord Vader

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    Considering them "the law" is just plain childish and stupid. They're not. This is yet another attempt to excuse their actions (or inactions, for that matter).
     
  16. Nov 8, 2011 #36 of 369
    Lord Vader

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    I agree. It's like saying, "But hey! He's Joe Paterno!" As if this makes a difference.
     
  17. Nov 8, 2011 #37 of 369
    Carl Spock

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    No, it's not. It is a fact. As a guy who was intimidated by my high school football coach, I never would have dared cross Woody Hayes or Dan Devine.

    You demand a kid bring down a legend, and then want to punish him when he doesn't. Sorry, this isn't a Hollywood script. People just don't act that way. Maybe they should, and maybe you would, Vader, but I know I never could.

    Hell, the only time I ever saw John Wooden was in a men's room, with both of us standing at a row of urinals. I couldn't even pee. Performance anxiety. HE'S JOHN WOODEN!
     
  18. Nov 8, 2011 #38 of 369
    Lord Vader

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    It's a fact that he had police powers? Carried a badge? Bullschit! The guy was no more important or special than anyone else on campus when it comes to the raping and abuse of children!
     
  19. Nov 8, 2011 #39 of 369
    braven

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    At the end of the day, if the right thing had been done. Countless innocent kids would not of had their life ruined. This whole thing is despicable. I'd like to know how Mike McQueary's toes aren't being held to the fire for not reporting what he saw first hand to the police or Child Protective Services.
     
  20. Nov 8, 2011 #40 of 369
    SayWhat?

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    What was that about the Captain of the ship being ultimately responsible?
     
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