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The roots of Islamic terrorism lie in family violence

Discussion in 'The OT' started by Nick, May 11, 2004.

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  1. May 11, 2004 #1 of 120
    Nick

    Nick Retired, part-time PITA DBSTalk Club

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    The...
    It's far worse than any decent person could ever imagine.

    An article in the "Israel Insider" postulates that Islamic-rooted terrorism has its roots in family violence, incest and sexual abuse, and the subsequent need for emotional and personal revenge of such horrific acts. The author, Phyllis Chesler, delves deeply in to the psychological origins of Islamic hatred and violence.

    ---------------------------------------
    The psychoanalytic roots of Islamic terrorism
    Israel Insider - By Phyllis Chesler May 6, 2004

    In the ongoing battle for Fallujah, terrorists are using women and children as human shields against American soldiers. On April 27, 2004, in Jerusalem, Hamas used a Palestinian human bomb to kill two Palestinian alleged "collaborators." On April 28, 2004, even as UN envoy, Lakhdar Brahimi, was busy characterizing Israeli policy as the "great poison in the region," Jordanian police arrested al-Qaida operatives who were quite literally trying to launch a chemical poison attack that might have killed 80,000 Jordanians and Americans. And, on May 1, 2004, in Gaza, Palestinian gunmen shot and killed a Jewish woman who was eight-months pregnant together with her four young daughters.

    "...barbarous family and clan dynamics in which children, both boys and girls, are routinely orally and anally raped by male relatives; infant males are sometimes sadistically over-stimulated by being masturbated; boys between the ages of 7-12 are publicly and traumatically circumcised; many girls are clitoridectomized; and women are seen as the source of all shame and dishonor and treated accordingly: very, very badly."

    "Widespread child sexual abuse leads to paranoid, highly traumatized, and revenge-seeking adults...a polygamous, patriarchal culture also leads to an infernal, fraternal competition for paternal favor and inheritance. It is brother against brother, full brothers against half-brothers, full and half brothers against first cousins..."

    Complete article
     
  2. May 11, 2004 #2 of 120
    Halfsek

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    What can you say?
    Where do you start feeling the horror about this?

    We have beheadings.

    And we have animal barbarism.

    Arafat called the murderer of the pregnant woman and her four children a Martyr. Well, why not? Thanks to him there are six less Jews in the world.
     
  3. May 11, 2004 #3 of 120
    Strong

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    Oh yeah us decent folks would rather use more traditional forms of mayhem against each other

    Country Rates of Violent Crime Per 100,000 people
    United States 4,160
    Saudi Arabia 405
    Indonesia 63
    Algeria 332
    France 6,666
    Israel 5,888
    Japan 2,300
    Lebanon 2,991
    New Zealand 12,586
    Oman 415
    Russia 1,754
    Singapore 703
    Switzerland 4,784
    UK (England, Wales) 11,326
    Yemen 63


    (Latest statistics from Interpol http://www.interpol.int/Public/Statistics/ICS/downloadList.asp )
     
  4. May 11, 2004 #4 of 120
    Halfsek

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    Okay, just so I don't assume anyting and put words in your mouth, can you please elaborate how that list of numbers means anything when compared to the cultural incidents described in the aricle?
     
  5. May 11, 2004 #5 of 120
    Strong

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    The source of that article is not exactly unbiased.

    I don't see any moral difference between 'decent civlized folks' dropping bombs on unarmed civilians from 20k feet or a 'terrorist' using a nail laced backpack bomb to blow up unarmed civilians.

    To me they are both repugnant.
     
  6. May 12, 2004 #6 of 120
    Halfsek

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    But you conveniently avoid the main tenant of the article.

    Your comparison of bombs from 20k and nail laced backpacks can be argued... barely, but that doesn't change the fact that one side embraces the torture of children while the other embraces the lives of children.

    And even if the whole article is false, the fact that children are being recruited for suicide missions is beyond comparison.
    I really don't know why you choose to ignore that.

    I know you're not anti semetic and I know that you're not anti American. But for some reason you seem to cling to some sort or moral equivalence in an area in which it is so obviously absent.

    As much as I hate to say this.... think of the children. One culture actively destroys their future- whether or not they rape them at home. Other cultures embrace their future. And that is proven by their actions every day.
     
  7. May 12, 2004 #7 of 120
    Strong

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    I don't think that writer had any incentive to humanize Israel's enemies. It is normal for combatants to think of their enemies in the most negative light in order to futher their own objectives.

    It would be interesting to see how our own rates of child abuse, rape, murder, neglect etc. stack up against other nations. What would that say about our national character? I'm not religious, but I remember biblical passages about 'he who throws stones...' and the other one about 'specks in the eye of others...'

    The issue of cruise missiles vs. backpacks comes down to $$$. If they had the money they would probably prefer the much more efficient (and self preserving) nature of advanced technology to destroy their enemies. Would that make them less despicable in your eyes?
     
  8. May 12, 2004 #8 of 120
    Tusk

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    This argument is getting old. The difference between us using cruise missiles and them using backpacks is we try to minimize civilian and collateral damage and they try to maximize civilian and collateral damage.

    It would be great if we could all sit on a mountain and meditate over the meaning of life, but currently in our world, there are people who want us dead. I for one, am glad we are taking steps to prevent that.
     
  9. May 12, 2004 #9 of 120
    toenail

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    The problem is that we're dealing with a group of people who actually believe we are "weak" because we love life, when it is allegedly better to "love death."

    http://www.opinionjournal.com/taste/?id=95001345

    http://gloria.idc.ac.il/publications/books/review_reader.html

    http://www.likud.nl/press96.html

    How on earth (literally) can one ever rationalize that type of thinking? Isn't the fruit of such a mindset obvious? Of course you'd use your own kids as human bombs-- "life" is meaningless. And of course you wouldn't hesitate to kill and maim countless innocents-- their lives are meaningless as well. This is a very scary world we live in.
     
  10. May 12, 2004 #10 of 120
    HappyGoLucky

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    That is about as factual as
    The Protocols of the Elders of Zion . What we have are arabs spreading nonsense about jews and jews spreading nonsense about arabs. There is little if any truth in either.
     
  11. May 12, 2004 #11 of 120
    Nick

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    Strong, you obviously missed the point of my post - the root causes of irrational Islamic hatred and violence. Your argument is apple & oranges and you damn well know it. Your recitation of acts of violence by and in this country is completely out of context. This is not tit for tat.

    You come across as a self-flagellating apologist for those Islamics who engage in barbaric, inhuman terroristic acts. If that, in fact, is your position, you disgust me. We are in a to-the-death world-wide battle against Islamic extremists who foment and carry out senseless, despicable, hate-motivated acts of violence against the innocent. This war could well continue for decades or centuries, or until the inevitable extinction of humanity, whichever come first. You had better get your noggin on straight and decide now which side you want to be on - not that you really have a choice.

    This is nothing less than World War III and there is no neutral ground.
     
  12. May 12, 2004 #12 of 120
    Bogy

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    A primary strategy of war is to dehumanize your enemy. This makes it easier to justify killing/destroying him, and also serves to humiliate that enemy. That was a large part of the posed pictures in an Iraqi prison. To dehumanize and humiliate Iraqi men. Over the years its been done to justify the repression of people of many different cultures and races. It is a despicable practice. The "evidence" given in the article is primarily anecdotal. Not exactly a scientific study that is reproducible. But it serves the purpose. Look at the horror and disgust it stirred up here.
     
  13. May 12, 2004 #13 of 120
    Bogy

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    Nick, are you sure you are taking this seriously enough?
     
  14. May 12, 2004 #14 of 120
    Halfsek

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    I would argue the fact that we prosectue those guilty of such action says a lot about our nation character.

    This is where you are wrong. Their battle is physical as well as political. There is a much greater political impact when a person is willing to kill himself for his cause.
    How many times have I read on this board, "although suicide bombings are terrible, I can see the frustration which leads them to it." The fact that these people are "willing" to kill themelves to show the world the "horrors" inflicted on them every day makes the world much more harsh on Israel.

    If there were no suicide bombers and only truck bombs, then people's reactions would be much different. The Palestinians would be seen as everyday terrorists.


    But you don't have to look that deeply to realize that the people "willing" to die for their causes are being used and tricked to carry out these actions- you will have a lifetime of sex if you die while killing Jews. I still can't see how some of you refuse to accept that as being inhuman and a detriment to their cause.

    You have the world up in arms because some Iraqi criminal is "humiliated" yet not a peep when a 15 year old Palestinian blows himself to bits for the promise of 72 sexually inexperienced women.

    The problem, Happy, is that there is evidence that these things happen. I just posted about a woman burned alive and how at least one of her sisters was killedto redeem the family honor.
    But even if the whole thing is a lie, how do you explain the use of children and the promise of sex to justify suicide and murder?
     
  15. May 12, 2004 #15 of 120
    Bogy

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    Not a peep? I think there is a huge outcry against such things.
     
  16. May 12, 2004 #16 of 120
    Halfsek

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    I'm on the verge of sounding conspiratorial here.. but I'm leaning toward agreement with Nick.

    Not as a judgement at all, but Europe is getting very 'Islamitized'. France is starting to see this and they're getting nervous.
    I just read an article stating that the numbers of Cathlics going to church in Europe is lower than the number of Muslims going to services.
    Is that bad? Not necessarily, but when many of those Imams are preaching hate and muder, there are going to be problems.

    I do believe that not enough people are taking this seriously enough.

    And again, this is against militant Islam. But the problem is, you don't see moderate, modern Muslims leaders speaking out against their evil brothers.
    Why not?
     
  17. May 12, 2004 #17 of 120
    Halfsek

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    Really? From where?
    There may be quote from some leader saying something to the effect, "the escalation of violence will not promote peace."

    That doesn't cut it.
     
  18. May 12, 2004 #18 of 120
    Bogy

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    Actually, if you pay attention you do. They're the ones who keep getting blown up. It might be nice if you at least acknowledged that they are taking great risks, and all to often paying the ultimate price, to speak out against their evil brothers.
     
  19. May 12, 2004 #19 of 120
    Halfsek

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    Sorry Bogy, I need more than can be counted on one hand.
     
  20. May 12, 2004 #20 of 120
    Bogy

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    I see a number of newscasts about children blowing themselves up, and they aren't portraying them as heroes. But there is a difference between a 15 year old kid who is influenced by a terrorist cell to blow himself up, and representatives of the American Empire, who claim to stand for right and good, who stage photo sessions designed to humiliate and dehumanize an entire religion. Both are evil, but its apples and oranges. Stop trying to play tit for tat.
     
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