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They lied! They lied! They lied!

Discussion in 'The OT' started by jonstad, Sep 15, 2005.

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  1. Sep 15, 2005 #21 of 122
    Capmeister

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    Nagin: "Governor, I have busses, but not enough, and no one to drive them."
    Blanco: "We have more busses here, and I'll order our National Guard troops to drive them, and coordinate."
    Nagin: "Good idea. I'll get our police to make sure we get out everyone we can. Or--wait a second--what if instead we send them to the Superdome, and the Convention Center, even though we have no supplies there."
    Blanco: "Sounds good. If the Red Cross or Salvation Army try to get through with supplies, I'll make sure we stop them, because the last thing we want is people STAYING there."
     
  2. Sep 15, 2005 #22 of 122
    Tom in TX

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    Good one, Cap!
     
  3. Sep 15, 2005 #23 of 122
    Danny R

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    Garydw: Who was going to drive the busses?

    Sorry, but if evacuations were held up because of a lack of "professional" bus drivers, thats insane. I'm sure there are those who needed out who can drive their own bus. I certainly would have stepped up to the plate and drove one myself if necessary, and I don't have a professional grade license.


    Nick: Where were/are the blacks in this massive rescue effort? Where are the "million men", the 100 black men of Atlanta, and all the other black groups and individuals?

    Again, what did Jesse Jackson bring with him to N.O. other than his racism and hate? No water, no food, no hope.

    No nothing.


    ntexasdude: And look at who is helping these people now. It is white families and Christian churches.

    Lets stop with the racist comments! I think that card has been played enough. Saying only whites are helping is absolutely wrong. I know for a fact that many black churches, schools and individuals are doing a lot to help.

    As for Jackson, saying he's done nothing is also a lie. For example:
     
  4. Sep 16, 2005 #24 of 122
    ntexasdude

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    Danny, I have edited post #11 and added an apology.
     
  5. Sep 16, 2005 #25 of 122
    Richard King

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    Thanks, Cap. You are now in charge of all DBSTalk bus trips. :D
     
  6. Sep 16, 2005 #26 of 122
    n8dagr8

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    Someone brought up Jesse Jackson (what a joke).....when ask why the buses weren't used to evacuate people he said, "We had no were to take them[rebuilders or whatever he's calling them this week]".

    So to argue about the number of buses is really a moot point, even Jesse would tell you this because, DUHHH, there was no where to take all these people. :nono2:

    This however is an interesting point because what did Jesse bring with him to the crescent city when he came? anyone? Nick? Buses (and a whole lotta nothing, as Nick stated). Anyone else see something slightly off about this? And who did he pick up? The sick, old, children, mothers? Nope, healthy college students. As I said earlier, what a joke!
     
  7. Sep 16, 2005 #27 of 122
    Bogy

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    Remember mainedish, the next time you are upset by something in the NYT or in a Michael Moore film, it's just politics. :lol:
     
  8. Sep 16, 2005 #28 of 122
    James Long

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    If one of those buses would have had an accident the city would have been liable. Even in an emergency there are liability issues. AFTER the fact it makes perfect sense to get those buses in circulation and to heck with the liability ... hindsight is always 20/20.

    The biggest issue was the lateness of the decision of the people to evacuate. People didn't leave their homes. People went at the last moment to the 'last refuge' Superdome. Imagine hundreds of buses trying to outdrive a strong Cat 4 hurricane all loading up at that time and heading north along it's path.

    Residents of NO gambled that they could ride out the storm. The mayor gambled that they would not be hit hard. The governor gambled that nothing bad would happen. The levee board gambled that their levees would hold and funded casino improvements instead of just levee improvements. FEMA gambled that the city and state government would make appropriate requests and decisions. President Bush gambled that the day to day operations of the United States would not need micro-management.

    If the gamblers all would have won we never would have known how lucky they were. If the gamblers would have all made opposite bets people would have been amazed at how well government worked together. If the gamblers would have made opposite bets and have nothing happen these threads would be about the mayor/governor/president who cried wolf and how annoying it was to evacuate for "no reason". And President Bush would be in trouble for interfering with the operation of Louisiana instead of being bashed for not interfering more.

    The local and state bets were placed on the side of "it won't be bad" and the national bets were placed on "the locals know best". They lost. Let's not lose again.

    JL
     
  9. Sep 16, 2005 #29 of 122
    James Long

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    URGENT - WEATHER MESSAGE
    NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEW ORLEANS LA
    1011 AM CDT SUN AUG 28 2005

    DEVASTATING DAMAGE EXPECTED

    HURRICANE KATRINA
    A most powerful hurricane with unprecedented strength ... rivaling the intensity of Hurricane Camille of 1969.

    Most of the area will be uninhabitable for weeks ... perhaps longer. At least one half of well constructed homes will have roof and wall failure. All gabled roofs will fail ... leaving those homes severely damaged or destroyed.

    The majority of industrial buildings will become non functional. Partial to complete wall and roof failure is expected. All wood framed low rising apartment buildings will be destroyed. Concrete block low rise apartments will sustain major damage ... including some wall and roof failure.

    High rise office and apartment buildings will sway dangerously ... a few to the point of total collapse. All windows will blow out.

    Airborne debris will be widespread ... and may include heavy items such as household appliances and even light vehicles. Sport utility vehicles and light trucks will be moved. The blown debris will create additional destruction. Persons ... pets ... and livestock exposed to the winds will face certain death if struck.

    Power outages will last for weeks ... as most power poles will be down and transformers destroyed. Water shortages will make human suffering incredible by modern standards.

    The vast majority of native trees will be snapped or uprooted. Only the heartiest will remain standing ... but be totally defoliated. Few crops will remain. Livestock left exposed to the winds will be killed.

    An inland hurricane wind warning is issued when sustained winds near hurricane force ... or frequent gusts at or above hurricane force ... are certain within the next 12 To 24 hours.

    Once tropical storm and hurricane force winds onset ... do not venture outside!
    Chicken little crying wolf? Not 100% accurate but on the right track. It is a shame that people blew off one of the most dire weather warnings ever written.

    JL
     
  10. Sep 16, 2005 #30 of 122
    jonstad

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    Thank you for your support.:D

    There IS one other thing I sincerely wish you'd agree with me on though.

    I'm not prepared to condemn a whole city and it's people for what happened over a few days that were arguably the worst in the city's history. Over events that most of them had little control over and some of them none. We're tempted to compare this to 9/11. It's the only event in our memories that even compares in magnitude. But it's a comparison that fails on so many levels.

    Horrible as 9/11 was, and it was, the immediate devastation was confined to a relatively small area. Outside that area, although everyone was certainly horrified and frightened, no lives or property were in jeopardy. And except for that small area, everyone had water, food, electricity, gas and sewer services. Except for that small area, no one needed to be evacuated, nor was there any need to. Police, fire personel and even school bus drivers from Queens, Brooklyn and the Bronx were secure in the knowledge they could go to work, or volunteer to help others and when they returned home they wouldn't find their families trapped in the attic by flood waters or waiting on the roof waiting for a helicopter to pluck them off, that's assuming they could GET home. And of course there was no need to send them packing to Philidelphia or Albany.

    If all of NYC had needed to be evacuated, do you suppose there might have been some looting? Do you think some police and fire personel and school bus drivers might have made the difficult decision to insure their families were safely evacuated first before returning to duty? Might some of them have decided it was a higher duty to leave WITH their families?

    This has certainly not been New Orleans' finest hour. But I don't think it's an hour they should be forever judged by.
     
  11. Sep 16, 2005 #31 of 122
    jonstad

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    It's all so simple in hindsight Danny. But what chaos might have ensued if Nagin had just started handing out the keys to several hundred school buses to anyone who "stepped up to the plate"? If everything worked even half right(and that's a real big IF!) some of the buses might have been loaded up with refugees in an orderly manner and driven out to safety. Some would have probably been in accidents, some might have gotten stalled in rising flood waters(try to picture that!:ewww: ). And some would have probably been filled up with somebody's posse or looted goods and driven out of the city never to be seen or heard from again. What criticism would Nagin be in for then? It's not a slam dunk it would be universally viewed as a brilliant move. And without drivers, and 20/20 foresight, it may have been thought the buses might come in handy AFTER.

    Maybe we should consider what went right? Shouldn't take long.;)

    Even though the call went out late, something like 80% of the population DID evacuate ahead of the storm. That's not too bad. Essentially everyone who could, and wanted to leave, got out. That left perhaps 100,000 still in the city. Of those, 30-50% made it to one of the designated shelters like the Superdome and Civic Center before the storm hit. And while that was no picnic, it beat being in a house that blew down or was flooded.

    It was after the storm that everything seemed to break down. I don't know about the rest of you but my thoughts kept returning to how come food and water weren't following the network video units and satellite uplink trucks going in and out of the city every day? If those were the only vehicles that could make it into the city, how come nobody had comandeered them to bring food and water in and the sick and injured out? Screw Brian Williams and Geraldo!:mad:
     
  12. Sep 16, 2005 #32 of 122
    Danny R

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    But what chaos might have ensued if Nagin had just started handing out the keys to several hundred school buses to anyone who "stepped up to the plate"?

    Yeah, I understand that. But you can bet if I'm ever in a disaster requiring manadory evacuations where death is on the line (nuclear, famine, alien attack) and the lack of a vehicle is all thats keeping me home, I'll be obtaining that vehicle, legal or not. ;)

    ntexasdude: Danny, I have edited post #11 and added an apology.

    Thanks for taking the high road! Well done.

    n8dagr8: This however is an interesting point because what did Jesse bring with him to the crescent city when he came? anyone? Nick? Buses (and a whole lotta nothing, as Nick stated).

    While I know Jackson deserves criticism for his often inane comments, I think people are unduly attacking him here. Rainbow/PUSH has organized several truckloads of food and other supplies that have gone ito the city, even putting aside their differences with conservatives (Clear Channel for instance) to help get the job done. I linked one such example above, but know of others in other cities.

    As for college students, are they less worthy than others? They were still stranded, and Jackson got to them because he knew they were there and they were in contact.
     
  13. Sep 16, 2005 #33 of 122
    Capmeister

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    Oy. :)

    I appoint Nick as bus monitor and Bogy as bus Chaplin. (See, it's all about delegation.)
     
  14. Sep 16, 2005 #34 of 122
    Capmeister

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    Heh. Actually, it's okay to get upset no matter what side one is on. Passion is good. It's not okay when we don't put that passion in perspective.
     
  15. Sep 16, 2005 #35 of 122
    skidog

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    I'm with you Danny, if I needed to get out I am going to get a vehicle, legal or not. I also agree with Jonstad, if I were the reporters, there's no way I could keep going in and out of there without taking people with me or bringing supplies in with me. Of course I would probably be fired for not doing my journalist duties, but screw them, extreme situations call for extreme measures and if I had a choice between talking in front of a camera or helping people I would always choose the latter. Another reason why I don't care for reporters all that much. I was yelling at the tv when the reporters were showing people that were dying and then the guy back at the station asking if they (the reporter and his posse) are going to be alright and he says they have plenty of food and water not to mention vehicles to leave with. I have an idea, how about you put the mic. down and help the people. :mad:
     
  16. Sep 16, 2005 #36 of 122
    Timco

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    Absolutely, Cap. Well said.
     
  17. Sep 16, 2005 #37 of 122
    mainedish

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    Two hosts at the liberal radio network Air America are defending Nation of Islam leader Minister Louis Farrakhan - saying he's not wrong to suspect that white people deliberately blew up the levees in New Orleans.

    On Monday, Farrakhan uncorked his ugly theory, telling a North Carolina audience: "I heard from a very reliable source who saw a 25 foot deep crater under the levee breach. It may have been blown up to destroy the black part of town and keep the white part dry." :lol:


    This is why I vote for Republicans.
     
  18. Sep 16, 2005 #38 of 122
    bobsupra

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    Farrakhan, like Pat Robertson, sits on the extreme edges of political thought. I don't vote for any particular candidate due to what some other idiot says. I vote for what the candidate says and if I believe he/she will do what he/she says.
     
  19. Sep 16, 2005 #39 of 122
    Capmeister

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    You vote for republlicans because of what insane racists say?
     
  20. Sep 16, 2005 #40 of 122
    mainedish

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    One of many reasons why I don't vote for democrats. How many democrats have come out and said this is not true? They won't because they want the votes.
     
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