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Ticked about having NO network stations in HD!

Discussion in 'DISH™ High Definition Discussion' started by marty45714, Jan 23, 2011.

  1. Feb 18, 2011 #41 of 109
    Michael P

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    Aren't you in the Parkersburg DMA? They have only one in-market channel: WTAP-15 NBC, the rest are imported from surrounding DMA's (I presume the cities you listed is what E* is giving you now). You would think that the imported stations could come from a larger market (Columbus or Cincinnati) where HD abounds.
     
  2. Feb 18, 2011 #42 of 109
    tampa8

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    I'm with you till the part of not wishing to provide HD channels. Could it be they were able to take over the SD broadcasts, but had to apply for the HD ones? Or, are going to provide different HD ones than before? I see their site says "Standard Definition Package" as if at sometime there will be an HD package, unless they have simply used what was there before.

    Edit...I called them, asked if they offer HD package, he said no. I asked if they might in the future. He said they recently dropped that service, but he "keeps hearing they are working on getting it back" but has no information when or if they will........
     
  3. Feb 18, 2011 #43 of 109
    runner861

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    I guess that this is what we are left with. Perhaps there is not enough money in an HD package--not enough subscribers. Hopefully, since the transponder space is still available, some company steps forward and offers an HD distants service. Or perhaps Dish will just offer the HD distants service itself. That would mean fewer customers are eligible for the service, but greater stability for the service. It would likely not be abruptly terminated, and Dish doesn't incur any significant costs in offering the service.

    I tried sending an email to questions@mydistantnetworks.com, the email address listed on the mydistantnetworks for inquiries, and it bounced back to me. Apparently that address is no longer valid.
     
  4. Feb 19, 2011 #44 of 109
    runner861

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    I called the 800 number for AAD this morning and spoke to a very nice lady. She told me that they are AAD and that Sobongo sold the operation. We already knew that, but she confirmed it. In inquired about the possibility of offering HD, and she said she didn't know because she is not in corporate. She added that she thought that it was interesting that people are calling asking for HD when, until recently, we only had SD television and everyone was happy with it. I commented that it is similar to the transition from black and white to color. Everyone was happy with black and white also--that is, until color appeared.
     
  5. Mar 1, 2011 #45 of 109
    ahmedgnz

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    I just read a new FCC ruling dated Sep 2010 that seems to grant permit to Dish Network to offer DNS again to qualifying markets either itself or through affiliates, reversing the Federal Court ban of several years ago. This, coupled to rumors that the new owners of MyDistantNetwork eliminated HD service because DishNetwork was asking then too much money for transponder space in their Western Arc satellite, leads me to believe that DishNet has plans to transmit HD networks either on its own or through another affiliate in the not too distant future. Any comments?
     
  6. Mar 1, 2011 #46 of 109
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    The ruling allowed DISH to go back to court and get a waiver of their injunction.

    DISH can offer distants, but the rules about where they can offer distants severely limit their offerings. They are basically limited to fill ins - only carrying a network in a market where there are no affiliates in that market. Plus the RV market.

    As far as profitability ... from what I understand AAD was paying $150,000 per month for the transponder ... which at $149.99 per year for all four HDs would require 12,000 customers to break even on JUST the transponder space. (6,000 if people subscribed to both east and west - 5,373 average per channel at the per channel rate). There are other costs involved (backhaul, uplink and statutory rights payment, plus overhead for running the company). It takes a lot of customers to make the offering viable and since last year DISH has cut in to that customer base by offering their own "free" fill-in distants in many markets.

    For HD Distants to return via a third party they need to find a large number of subscribers (10,000?) to support the program offering. They could return via DISH but only on a very limited basis (fill ins and RVs). DISH would probably make more money off of the transponder at $150,000 per month than selling distants themselves.
     
  7. Mar 1, 2011 #47 of 109
    runner861

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    Right now Dish is earning nothing off of the transponder. It is essentially in back up status, ready to be used for HD distants or any other service. However, Dish is now earning nothing off of the transponder.

    I wish that Dish would make the situation clear. I think it is poor to first allow the one-year contracts of customers to be abrogated midway through, then to say nothing about what the plans are for HD distants. I know, one can argue that the AAD is the one that abrogated the contract, not Dish, and this is true but not the complete story. All the HD distant customers were also Dish customers, and AAD was operating the HD distant service on Dish's equipment. Both Dish and Dish's customers benefited from the service. Dish and AAD, while separate companies, are closely linked.

    Of course, Dish has no obligation to offer HD distants, just as Dish has no obligation to offer most other stations. However, Dish seems content at this time to uplink the HD distants, but not offer them. It makes no sense, and I think that it is a poor way to treat customers.
     
  8. Mar 1, 2011 #48 of 109
    tampa8

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    Dish has not offered distants, and still isn't. What would they have to say about it? As far as they are concerned nothing has changed. Just as when a channel is no longer carried by Dish, they put up a message on the channels that said to call AAD if you have questions, these channels are no longer available.
    They and AAD were not closely linked, in fact Dish went to great pains to make that abuntantly clear in Court when AAD leased the space. In addition, Dish did none of the qualifying or billing for service, it was done by the company providing them. In my opinion, Dish has nothing to say unless they will begin to provide distants themselves.

    You are putting a lot of emphasis on the fact the distants may still be linked. I can't tell you how many channels over the years Dish has had linked that took months to be added, or in some cases never were. It is entirely possible Dish does not know when or if they will be offered. With most all the country being served now by locals, we are only talking about short markets and RV's/Truckers. If dish was to offer them, there just isn't much money to made doing it. They can however with the waiver now offer them to those short markets, which I'm sure they will eventually do, and may be the reason to keep them linked. From a financial standpoint it would seem a third party is needed to allow the maximum amount of people to subscribe. But if the figures are correct in the above post, it would take alot of subscribers, more than will get them.
     
  9. Mar 1, 2011 #49 of 109
    runner861

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    Dish has been providing distants since around the middle of 2010. Dish continues to provide distants today.
     
  10. Mar 1, 2011 #50 of 109
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    DISH offers distants, however the distants DISH offers are fill-ins for markets missing a network, and DISH has chosen to offer closer distants - ones with a spotbeam covering the market needing a distant network - instead of using national feeds.

    I believe the transponder is still there because DISH is leaving the door open for someone to come along and offer the service. They have not given up hope that someone will want to take the financial risk. The only distants DISH can offer are fill-ins or an RV service. DISH is not charging for fill-ins so it would take a lot of RV customers to pay for that transponder. To fully realize the potential of that transponder and get the most money out of it they need someone else to offer the service.

    They probably should give up and put something else there. Starting their own distants service for RV users isn't major income (unless DISH charges $15 per month and finds 10,000 customers). If DISH starts their own service it shuts the door for a third party to take over the service without a lot of explaining to the Special Master.
     
  11. Mar 1, 2011 #51 of 109
    runner861

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    Dish may end up not offering HD distants and not having any third-party vendor offer them. But if they do that it is still a significant gap in their service. Direct offers HD distants to qualified subscribers. Many RVers and truckers are Dish subscribers and want the HD distants. Maybe it won't mean much in terms of money, but some of these subscribers are high end, and they will leave. Anyone who has HD service in a truck or RV is a high-end subscriber. Some of those people may take their home or vacation home subscriptions with them.

    Right now Dish is making nothing off of the transponder. They should just offer the service themselves, making at least a little money in the process.
     
  12. Mar 1, 2011 #52 of 109
    tampa8

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    It may be the words used, but I stand by my post.

    Dish "USES" out of market networks to fill in short markets, but if you wanted a network not in your DMA, because you are in a white zone with no locals offered by dish, or have an RV etc..., they would not offer them because they do not provide distants. They provide out of market networks only to those markets they serve, but that do not have all the networks in the DMA.

    I just feel saying Dish has been "offering" networks way overstates the case, especially in regards to what this thread is about.
     
  13. Mar 1, 2011 #53 of 109
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Right now DISH has no commitment to the content on that transponder. If they began an RV distants service it would not bring a lot of income - and it would tie up the transponder for an undetermined length of time. It would be better to not offer RV distants than start a money losing service.

    Most of the out of market channels DISH delivers are legally distants ... and are legally limited to short markets or RV'rs. So far, DISH has chosen not to sell distants to RV'rs - and does not deliver the same distants nationally.
     
  14. Mar 2, 2011 #54 of 109
    runner861

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    I am not sure that it would be a money-losing service. There is no lease fee if Dish offers the service itself. Dish will lose some RV and trucker high-end customers if it does not offer the service. When a subscriber leaves, particularly a high-end subscriber (such as a HD subscriber), that is noticed.

    Why does Direct set aside the transponder space and offer the service? Direct is also offering "neighboring distants" in short markets, but has not terminated its nationwide service, available in both HD and SD. I am aware that Direct does not provide locals in every market.
     
  15. Mar 2, 2011 #55 of 109
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    If DirecTV is so perfect why not subscribe to it? There are a lot of things DirecTV does that DISH doesn't do ... providing distants to the RV/Truck market is way down the list of importance (with apologies to a certain RV subscriber who also thinks HD Distants is a must have service).

    DISH does not have to do everything the DirecTV way.

    If providing the service themselves would bring in enough money to cover the costs I'm sure DISH would have done it. If it were a profitable service charging $3.49 per channel per month or $149.99 per year for a full set (one city) I'm sure someone would be doing that. The door is still open if someone is willing to give it a try.
     
  16. Mar 2, 2011 #56 of 109
    runner861

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    I'm not implying that Direct is perfect, or that I want to subscribe to it. I am just drawing a comparison. I'm sure that HD distants are way down the list of importance. A lot of people want full-time HD RSNs, me included, but that also seems to be way down the list of importance.

    I am still hopeful that both will ultimately be available on Dish.
     
  17. Mar 2, 2011 #57 of 109
    ahmedgnz

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    Does lack of local network affiliate still signify a network that the network does not broad cast a B-class or better signal that can reach the subscriber with an over-the-air antenna? If this is so, then the eastern half of Puerto Rico, including the San Juan metropolitan area, still qualifies for this kind of distant network service, given that all the network "affiliates" here, NBC, CBS, ABC, FOX, (the broadcasting rights of which are in reality all owned by a single consortium of Pacific rim investors, which means no real network competition for ad spots) are transmitted by antennas from either the west coast of the island or from the Virgin Islands not powerful enough to reach San Juan and eastern Puerto Rico over the air.
    If lack of network affiliate is still defined by lack of over-the-air reception, then indeed Dish Network would be legally able to provide PR customers with DNS, but will they actually do it, given that they offer the so-called local affiliates as part of their local station package.
     
  18. Mar 2, 2011 #58 of 109
    runner861

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    If Dish is providing local service within the market, then Dish generally cannot provide any distants to that market unless that market is a short market. There are a few exceptions, such as a viewer who has a waiver, but that is the general rule.

    A third-party provider, such as AAD, can provide distants to unserved subscribers (those who cannot receive a signal OTA).
     
  19. Mar 2, 2011 #59 of 109
    ahmedgnz

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    As I understand it, a white zone is an area unable to receive an over-the-air Class B or better signal from its local network affiliates, no matter if it can get such local networks via satellite or cable reception. The intention of Congress behind limiting Distant Networks to such zones (and to RV's) was to prevent the preemption by national feeds of the ad space allocated to over-the-air local affilliates and thus preserve the latters' market. In short, Congress did not want local stations to be run out of business by the broadcast walmarts. There was also some worry about preserving the local flavor and diversity of these market areas but only inasmuch as local flavor is another contributing factor to the economic. or money-making, identity of the local markets.
     
  20. Mar 2, 2011 #60 of 109
    ahmedgnz

    ahmedgnz New Member

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    Please enlighten as what a "short"market is
     

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