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Tivo and Liberty Media

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by faust0068, Oct 11, 2007.

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  1. Oct 11, 2007 #21 of 211
    MikeR

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    If you are really wondering why some support the Directv decision not to go to Tivo again -
    (1) the business reasons stated in this thread (cost/profits, control, brand loyalty),
    (2) some are not diehard fans of TiVo,
    (3) some believe that as a service provider, Directv can provide more to them without TiVo involvement. A better, stronger company can provide better service.
     
  2. Oct 11, 2007 #22 of 211
    Earl Bonovich

    Earl Bonovich Lifetime Achiever

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    There is no monetary support for the program:

    The provided us the opportunity to download that... and participate in the discussions, and provide our feedback for the product.

    To some of us "geeks" that could be thought of as "funding"...
     
  3. Oct 11, 2007 #23 of 211
    bonscott87

    bonscott87 Cutting Edge: ECHELON '07

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    You do realize there are maybe 100K HR10 only subs left and well over a million HD subs overall, right? If all 100K left it would be a one financial quarter "bump" that would be barely noticed. Sub growth overall that quarter might be only 100K instead of the normal 200K+ they have.

    In other words the HR10 only people left aren't a concern in DirecTV's bottom line if they all decided to leave, which we know isn't the case. Maybe a few thousand die hards that are "Tivo or else!" and that's it. Again, worse case senario you lose 50-100K subs. Big deal in the grand scheme of things.

    Also keep in mind that Tivo is losing 125K DirecTivo subs a quarter now. So the DirecTivo population is shrinking all the time. Yet at the same time each quarter DirecTV sub numbers go *UP* and churn is down. In otherword most of the 125K lost DirecTivo customers are not leaving DirecTV as it is.

    One must keep this all in perspective and bringing Tivo back just doesn't make any sense financially.
     
  4. Oct 11, 2007 #24 of 211
    dodge boy

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    Well I'm a D* or nothing else at this point (I don't see any other good competion) and I am only an SD sub not an HD one...... :)
     
  5. Oct 11, 2007 #25 of 211
    jburroughs

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    Why not support a device that decodes DirecTV signals (contains access card and security equipment of receiver, possible modem for PPV purchases) into a signal compatible with a cable card.
    This would allow cable card compatible Tivos and other cablecard devices work with DirecTV.

    This will probably never happen but alas, I may dream!:D
     
  6. Oct 11, 2007 #26 of 211
    bonscott87

    bonscott87 Cutting Edge: ECHELON '07

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    LOL. Cable doesn't even want to do this and only supports cable cards (barely) because the FCC forced them to and now they are moving to switched video which will render cable cards obsolete.
     
  7. Oct 11, 2007 #27 of 211
    donshan

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    Regardless of who makes the DVR, Tivo is inside to some extent already. Tivo owns essential DVR software patents that they license to others and collect revenues for the use of those software features. Tivo was the original inventor of the DVR and got the first patents that have been upheld in court. Others like E* tried to get around the Tivo patents and got sued.

    The name Tivo may not appear on the box, but DirecTV has licensed a number of Tivo patents for their DVR software in all DVRs . See this link about the E* lawsuit and this quote about DirecTV:

    http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?site=cdn&doc_id=135629

    Any change to increase the "Tivo like" software in D* DVRs should be possible by building on the existing Tivo licensing deal, especially if customers keep wanting those "Tivo" features and Liberty wants to make it happen too. D* will want to remain competitive with the cable DVRs.
     
  8. Oct 11, 2007 #28 of 211
    jjohns

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    Well, I can't speak directly from the Tivo perspective, I have an HR20 and have been with DirecTV for around 15 years. Tivo could be named BoxX as far as I'm concerned, but I've learned to ignore the accusations that I'm a Tivo fan. It is strange, if you question some of DirecTV's motives you are automatically branded a Tivo guy. (Would that be stereotyping?)

    Anyway, what I do have a problem with is the heavy proprietary-leaning steps that DirecTV seems to continually always walk up. I was involved with the Linux development in the early 90's and it irks me to see DirecTV move in the direction that you have to use "their" box and offer no other options while they are running their application on Linux, an "open source" operating system. Reminiscent of Ma Bell, GM, Microsoft and every other corporation that heads down this proprietary road. Money. Only money.

    It didn't work with AT&T (Panasonic, etc), it didn't work with GM (Walmart), it didn't work with Windows (Linux) and it will not work with DirecTV. It is just a matter of time before an open source community such as MythTV or others working on it now, will successfully code and provide a box that can do everything the HR20 can do and in some areas better. Maybe by then, like the music industry is heading, HBO won't need a middle man to air it's signal; it will use it's own HBO-owned satellite and HBO-owned service provider. Like you said. One can only dream.
     
  9. Oct 11, 2007 #29 of 211
    jaywdetroit

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    AND....

    A moderators posting polls about whether or not you would trade your HR20 in for a TIVO. :)

    :D
     
  10. Oct 11, 2007 #30 of 211
    skakusha

    skakusha AllStar

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    I am curious about these points you bring up. As there are companies that can prove both sides of this argument.

    Companies like Apple have done it, and pulled it of well. In many aspects this approach impacted them for years, and in the past few years has gone in their favor. Despite better portable music and video players they are the leader. I have also seen many colleagues argue that Windows OS has more issues than the Apple OS, because they do not control their hardware platform as Apple does.

    In regards to your comments about HBO, I think the internet may be making a lot of companies nervous. Your HBO distribution scenario can be accomplished with the internet. I won't buy missed TV shows via Amazon or iTunes, when I can watch it for free online via networks web sites. Others have no problem paying for these items. Actually, DOD will help make the use of the internet for streaming and download more acceptable for the average consumer.

    As technology changes, and broadband bandwidth increase, it will be interesting to see where things go.
     
  11. Oct 11, 2007 #31 of 211
    Earl Bonovich

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    Wasn't Replay the first DVR out there?

    Yes, TiVo does hold a lot of patents.... and they do get revenue for some of them... but E*'s case is still held up in court, so TiVo, Inc... hasn't gotten anything from it yet.

    DirecTV has a "contract" in place with TiVo, that TiVo will not sue DirecTV...
    But I don't know of any specific technology in their DVRs that is specifically "licensed" from TiVo.
     
  12. Oct 11, 2007 #32 of 211
    Milominderbinder2

    Milominderbinder2 Cutting Edge: ECHELON '08

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    Let's play make believe.

    Instead of wishing that DIRECTV and TiVo would announce an agreement next year, let's wish that they made their announcement three years ago.

    Their announcement might have looked like this. (Any place you see Comcast in this article, just pretend it says DIRECTV HR20):

    CNN 03/15/05 - Comcast TiVo by mid- to late 2006

    Here is the update on that wish from yesterday. Again pretend that instead of Comcast, it says DIRECTV HR20:

    TiVo On Comcast Delayed Yet Again

    So if you got your wish a million or so of us with HR20's would still be waiting for the HR20?

    Would there have been any point to launching the new satellites in the TiVo scenario?

    I can only speak for myself but I am really happy that wish did not come true.

    Let's fast forward to 2008. Let's assume that you get your wish and on March 15th of 2008 they make that first press release. As always, TiVo announces any new deal before the ink can even dry.

    Then on October 10th, 2009, they say it is "slightly delayed."

    I think I understand your wish but if it is all right, tonight I am going to go home and watch my 46 HD channels on a real-life HR20.

    And on Friday night, there may be another CE to download for the HR20. There have been updates almost weekly for months now: VOD, remote booking, etc.

    The moral of the story: Be careful what you wish for...

    - Craig
     
  13. Oct 11, 2007 #33 of 211
    faust0068

    faust0068 AllStar

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    Part of what is intersting on the whole Tivo D* relationship is that there are functions with Tivo that D* will no let Tivo activate, but out of the 4.6 million Tivo subscribers, only 1.6 are stand alone Tivo customers (balance Tivo/D*). Meaning that the features that make tivo special can not be used by the majority of there customer base. Maybe this will all change in the future when the sale goes through.
     
  14. Oct 11, 2007 #34 of 211
    jjohns

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    +1
     
  15. Oct 11, 2007 #35 of 211
    jjohns

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    How can one possibly fault someone for wanting the box they bought to receive more stations and are willing to pay for them?
     
  16. Oct 11, 2007 #36 of 211
    CTJon

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    And if this forum existed xx years ago how many would have predicted that HD would never have their own box for the same reasons now quoted for never TIVO doing the next D* box.
    Based upon their current experience with their own line of DVR's D* may say it isn't worth it - not necessarily 6 months from now but at some point in the future - 2 years - 6 years. How many different DVR's does the market need.

    How do we even know if the DVR issues isn't near at its peak and will soon head down. With DOD and other forms and as networks get bigger maybe everything will be available on demand. Why record Lost when you can order the episode whenever you want? This is a very changing and a technology in its infancy.

    Never say never. No is a short term only.
     
  17. Oct 11, 2007 #37 of 211
    drisner

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    I don't get why Tivo doesn't make a box that can take HD component input similar to the way it can take SD S-video/composite input.

    I get that the encoder for HD would have to be fancier than the SD version, but it seems to be just a matter of scale (number of pixels per frame) rather than a completely new technology. I also get there would be some small loss of quality via the re-encoding, but it works well with SD, why not with HD?

    Then they could sell a standalone Tivo box that would work with any HD system without cable cards just like their SD standalone box works with and SD system.
     
  18. Oct 11, 2007 #38 of 211
    Earl Bonovich

    Earl Bonovich Lifetime Achiever

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    $$$$... that "encoder" would not be cheap.

    And that the fact that component is not secure.. HDCP.
    Then you would aspects of people using this device, do basically duplicate "HIGHDEF"-DVD and other mediums.
     
  19. Oct 11, 2007 #39 of 211
    drisner

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    I can definitely seeing price being an issue.

    The whole component not being "secure" is exactly why I suggested that would be the one to use.

    The copying issue will be there no matter what device Tivo puts out. There is nothing the content owners can do to prevent copying. They can make it harder and they can add security "features" that make life harder on legitimate users, but they will never get rid of copying.

    The right to record TV and view it at a different time has been well established in the courts.
     
  20. Oct 11, 2007 #40 of 211
    Earl Bonovich

    Earl Bonovich Lifetime Achiever

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    Taking the "legal" aspects out of it, as we can have that debate for ever...

    It would not be "cheap" to include a component encoder, that can do it live data stream... in any such device.

    I still have not seen a product, that was cheap enough for a computer... let alone something for a consumer electronic device.
     
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