...and in the interests of fairness TCF (TiVo Community Forum) gets money directly from TiVo and it is TiVo who said they did not want discussions of "other DVR's" on their dime. Some folks over at TCF didn't appreciate it much -- hence why some moved to dbstalk, and many continue to post in both places. Others, like myself, understand TiVo's position of not wanting to pay for a discussion of a competing product. However, if it were not for DTV -- I'd have never become a TiVo customer. My loyalties are with DTV first, FWIW. That said, a smart company listens to what their customers want. In the case of TiVo, it is a huge retention tool. Given how much DTV spends in retention incentives (not to mention how expensive it is to get new customers) I would guess re-adding TiVo to the mix would be a net savings to DTV on the plus side -- and a wash on the negative.