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Tivo looks forward to Liberty

Discussion in 'DIRECTV General Discussion' started by STEVEN-H, Jun 4, 2007.

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  1. Jun 6, 2007 #181 of 208
    morgantown

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    ...and in the interests of fairness TCF (TiVo Community Forum) gets money directly from TiVo and it is TiVo who said they did not want discussions of "other DVR's" on their dime. Some folks over at TCF didn't appreciate it much -- hence why some moved to dbstalk, and many continue to post in both places.

    Others, like myself, understand TiVo's position of not wanting to pay for a discussion of a competing product. However, if it were not for DTV -- I'd have never become a TiVo customer. My loyalties are with DTV first, FWIW.

    That said, a smart company listens to what their customers want. In the case of TiVo, it is a huge retention tool. Given how much DTV spends in retention incentives (not to mention how expensive it is to get new customers) I would guess re-adding TiVo to the mix would be a net savings to DTV on the plus side -- and a wash on the negative.
     
  2. Jun 6, 2007 #182 of 208
    bto4wd

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    Which is a very good point. Tivo funds TCF and wants it kept TCF. My understanding is that DBSTalk is not funded by any DBS provider (Dish or DirecTV). Thus I would expect DBSTalk to be more neutral.
     
  3. Jun 6, 2007 #183 of 208
    Earl Bonovich

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    in addition to that...

    TCF is a sister site of DBSTalk.... we both are under the AVS umbrella..
    So we are not "competing" for membership and posts....

    We do have a DirecTV-TiVo section here, however we frequently direct people to TCF for their issues.... simply because that is where the expertise is. They do the same (for the most part) for the DVR+ systems.

    The TCF->DirecTV forum for the longest time was the defacto discussion thread for anything DirecTV.... until DBSTalk got a jumpstart with the R15 traffic.

    Bottom line.... this is the right forum, and thread to discuss this single statement.
     
  4. Jun 6, 2007 #184 of 208
    Earl Bonovich

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    The site is neutral, we allow just about any discussion here (there are some limitation).

    Hence why you don't see me (or any mod), deleting anti-DirecTV threads, deleting anti-Dish threads, ect.... and frankly (contrary to the belief by a small few that think we are censored), we don't ban people simply because they are anti-any company or have a different opinion on a topic that a mod, admin, or users have.

    BUT!!!!!

    That doesn't mean our membership base, can't discuss their opinions on the topics... and state their opinions based on other people opinions.

    This isn't an wikipedia off-shoot... this is a discussion forum.
    Unless your are a CatLover... (just kidding)... :D
     
  5. Jun 6, 2007 #185 of 208
    Tom_S

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    Well all the TiVo lovers can wish all they like but it aint gonna happen. I had TiVo for many years, it served it's purpose, and now it's time to move on. I thought D* was crazy for dumping TiVo because it would take a herculean effort to bring a working DVR to market in the time needed. This wound up being true. However, now that the HR20 is here and working damn good IMHO it would be equally stupid to now go back.

    After all that expense? Heads would roll that's for sure.
     
  6. Jun 6, 2007 #186 of 208
    Diana C

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    It certainly seems that the "pro-HR20" folks are very quick to point out all the features that DirecTiVos lack and the HR20 has. They conveniently skip over the fact that many of those features (and more) were actually incorporated in the DirecTiVo software, but were disabled AT DIRECTV'S INSTRUCTIONS!

    For example:

    1) S2 DirecTiVos all had the ability to play music, video and show pictures from a PC on the local network over 2 years ago. But that software was hidden at DirecTV orders.

    2) S2 DirecTiVos all had the ability to transfer recordings between DVRs over a LAN, but again, this was disabled at DirecTV's orders.

    3) S2 DirecTiVos had the ability make their "calls home" over the internet, but again, it was disabled by DirecTV.

    4) S2 DirecTiVos had the ability to download video to a PC for viewing on the device, but it was disabled per DirecTV's orders.

    Had DirecTV continued their support of TiVo and proceeded to the next software version, then they would also have the ability to be programmed via the Web (although such a feature had been a 3rd party option for years) and the ability to download video from Amazon (IOW, VOD).

    ALL DirecTiVos could support CID in hardware, and had DirecTV requested it, it could have been added to the software build at any time.

    Bottom line is that had DirecTV not abandoned TiVo in favor of NDS, we would today have a HD DirecTiVo that supported MPEG4, and had all the features of the HR20.

    So, let's be clear, as the OEM customer, DirecTV made decisions that crippled the DirecTiVo. Why they made those decisions are the source of endless speculation, but little fact.

    However, all that being said, the decisions HAVE been made. DirecTV committed themselves to building their own DVR platform. Unlike Cox and Comcast, they have their own development organization built up now. I don't think there is any chance of DirecTV going back to TiVo - it would be fiscally irresponsible and would raise the ire of investors - no matter WHO is running the show.
     
  7. Jun 6, 2007 #187 of 208
    bto4wd

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    No one said that in this thread. Some posters did mention the problems the R15/HR20 had and have, but no one in this thread used the "S" word.

    That's exactly my point. Why do you feel that when anyone says they like their Tivo more than their HR20 you and others have to jump in with the same old arguments? It's just one persons opinion, that's all. This is a thread about Tivo and D* maybe getting back together. Would you be surprised to find posts in such a thread that a member states they like their Tivo more than their HR20? I wouldn't.

    I noticed your "What do you LIKE about your HR20..." thread and I've read portions of it but left it alone. In the five pages of posts there, the only references to Tivo were those in which posters made comments on how they liked a feature on the HR20 over the Tivo. So 5 pages of folks having a HR20 "lovefest" without one Tivo hugger feeling the need to defend it. Five pages of HR20 users posting their opinions without any Tivo users jumping in to defend the Tivo.

    I don't have any idea why so many of you cannot resist posting how much you love your HR20 in a thread such as this. The HR20 is D*s HD DVR. This thread was just a comment made by one Tivo executive and look how much it ruffled your feathers. It almost seems like some of you are so insecure you feel the need to defend the HR20 and D* negative post.

    Speaking for myself, I don't see it as a competition between the HR20 and the rest of the world as many of you seem to do. As I've stated before, I just want a DVR that works at least as good as my current DVR (which happens to be a Tivo) does. I don't care if it's made by Mattel as long as it does what I want it to do. If D* and Tivo get back together, great. If D* gets the HR20 & R15 (I don't need a HD DVR in every room) working properly, great.
     
  8. Jun 6, 2007 #188 of 208
    bidger

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    That statement won't sit well with the TFBs, but I'm living it as well.

    I bought my first standalone TiVo in Oct. 2000 and my first D-TiVo six months later. Did Lifetime on both. Went to S2 models for both and got an HR10 in Aug. 2005 for $299-$100MIR.

    I bought a MCE 2005 PC in April 2006 and got the HR20 in Sept. that year. I now find I use both a lot more than the comparable TiVo units. I sold off both my standalone TiVos and will retire one, if not both, of my D-TiVos in August.

    I don't require the hand holding that TiVo seems to always want to provide. I also don't want to have to wait until TiVo decides they will carry the webcasts I want when I'm perfectly capable of doing that on my own. I don't want to pay TiVo several hundred dollars plus service costs to receive ATSC brdcsts when I can just add a tuner card to my PC or the HD Home Run box. Maybe others want TiVo to do those things for them and will pay, but I won't.

    TiVo's a fine DVR platform, but I gotta say, it's just a bit overrated, IMO.
     
  9. Jun 6, 2007 #189 of 208
    Jeremy W

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    http://www.tivocommunity.com/
     
  10. Jun 6, 2007 #190 of 208
    Earl Bonovich

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    So basically we (as in the entire user base) should allow anyone to state an opinion, with no response to that opinion? Then what is the point of the reply button?

    After a thread get's past it's second page, I am not surprised about any direction a thread goes.

    Thank you for noticing... but go back to Septemeber, and look at other threads, listing why the TiVo was so much better....
    If a "Tivo Hugger" wanted to start a thread, in the TiVo forum... asking what they liked about their TiVo... I would expect the same thing, from the HR20 huggers.

    And it equally amazes me, when people want to attack those that post something contrary to what they post... and it ruffles their feathers.
    You are quick to point out contents of the thread.

    The discussion of bringing TiVo BACK to DirecTV, does most definently have to include the discussion of the R15/HR20... why... because it most certainly would have some sort of impact to that unit.

    And again... IT IS A DISCUSSION FORUM. You can't have a discussion, unless you discuss the other side of the discussion.... if there wasn't more then one side of the conversation, then it is a lecture or speach... not a discussion.
     
  11. Jun 6, 2007 #191 of 208
    Jeremy W

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    The "fact" that DirecTV even made these decisions isn't a fact at all. You keep posting it like it is, but you can't provide a single shred of evidence to support it.
     
  12. Jun 6, 2007 #192 of 208
    Earl Bonovich

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    In fairness... it is true that DirecTV probably does have the final say of what is in the software.

    But what is missing, is the rest of the story on why those features are not there.
    Was it purely because DirecTV didn't think they were necessary?
    Were they considered to be a security risk (with regards to the video content features) that is a bigger concern for the Digital Signal?
    Did TiVo, Inc want more money to provide those features?
    And so...

    The answer is... none of know... none of us were in those meetings... we don't have all the facts around the decisions that were made.
     
  13. Jun 6, 2007 #193 of 208
    bto4wd

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    Whatever blows your hair back.

    But, back in September, as many threads indicate here, that was a legitimate argument. And it isn't happening any longer.

    I agree. But when members add a post such as "Then you're in the wrong place" it goes beyond being a discussion. And that post was what got me going on this line of discussion.
     
  14. Jun 6, 2007 #194 of 208
    Jeremy W

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    Of course. But Titan25 paints a picture where Tivo was ready to give the features away to DirecTV with open arms, but the evil overlords at DirecTV would have none of it. Could this have been the scenario? Sure. Was it? I doubt it. Like you said, we just don't know.
     
  15. Jun 6, 2007 #195 of 208
    Jeremy W

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    How does informing a new member of a place where their opinions might be more welcome, go beyond being a discussion?
     
  16. Jun 6, 2007 #196 of 208
    Drew2k

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    There is ample anecdotal evidence, however, for most of the statements passed off as "fact". Up through at least version 6.3, TiVo software was sent to the DVRs with all of the features tht were found on stand-alone receivers, but these features were disabled. The fact that there were disabled was discovered extremely enthusiastic TiVo FanBoys (aks "hackers") at a certain different database forum where deals could be found. With some work, these enthusiasts posted instructions to enable the dormant features. This supports the supposition that DirecTV told TiVo to disable the features.
     
  17. Jun 6, 2007 #197 of 208
    Drew2k

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    Really? That's your response? Now read what you wrote a moment later ...
    Who's beyond discussion now when you basically dismiss a valid question out of hand?

    You are obviously very enthusiastic about TiVo, but there are ways to argue your points and unfortunately, you're not coming across as anything but confrontational.
     
  18. Jun 6, 2007 #198 of 208
    Jeremy W

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    No it doesn't! It supports the fact that the features were disabled. Period. The fact that they're disabled doesn't tell you who ordered them to be disabled, nor does it tell you WHY they were ordered to be disabled. Maybe Tivo didn't want to mess with taking them out, and found it easier to just leave them in but disabled.
     
  19. Jun 6, 2007 #199 of 208
    Jhon69

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    Well I'll take a wild guess here and say it probably had something to do with Money!.:rolleyes:
     
  20. Jun 6, 2007 #200 of 208
    Jhon69

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    I'll agree with that statement!.It probably upset Directv so much they decided to build their own.;)
     
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