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What are your thoughts on Dual Live Buffers?

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by Stuart Sweet, Feb 1, 2008.

What are your thoughts on Dual Live Buffers?

  1. DLB's are not an important feature to me, based on my use of the HR2x.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. I might use DLB's if implemented, but I can live without them.

    221 vote(s)
    9.2%
  3. I would prefer DLB's as implemented on the HR10, but the current work-around is OK.

    409 vote(s)
    17.0%
  4. I want DLB's as implemented on the HR10. The current work-around is inadequate.

    167 vote(s)
    6.9%
  5. Until DLB's are added, I will not get a DVR+ unit.

    1,613 vote(s)
    66.9%
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  1. Apr 8, 2008 #1281 of 3895
    jahgreen

    jahgreen Godfather

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    [​IMG]

    :D
     
  2. Apr 8, 2008 #1282 of 3895
    Drew2k

    Drew2k New Member

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    I must be the one taking the photo. :)
     
  3. Apr 8, 2008 #1283 of 3895
    Dr. Booda

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    :hurah: The only visual I get after reading this is smoke arising from someone's ears while they spin around like a top. Blue screen loading...
     
  4. Apr 8, 2008 #1284 of 3895
    jheda

    jheda DBSTalk Club Member

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    So, BJ if u havent voted to date, how would you vote?
     
  5. Apr 8, 2008 #1285 of 3895
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Moderator Note:
    Please keep the sanity within the limits of the rules of DBSTalk.


    (In other words, this thread has been fun, but don't go crazy.)

    The discussion needs to get back on the DLB topic and away from other stuff.
     
  6. Apr 8, 2008 #1286 of 3895
    boltjames

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    My vote would be to do whatever is in the best interest of the HR20.

    In my opinion, anything that enables stress, confusion, and de-focused behavior is counter to the DVR's goals of providing a relaxing, organized, and focused viewing experience.

    If my vote, and my vote alone, is all it took for D* to add DLB to the HR20, I wouldn't do it. I like you guys and really understand how you miss the feature in the same way I missed some Tivo UI elements, but in order for the HR20 to move forward it must shed itself of the trappings of old school analog TV.

    "DLB" is savvy marketing. It's not really what it is. "Dual Live Buffer" sounds all official, like it belongs on the DVR. In reality, it's "Superjump". It's the old 1978 Magnavox "jump" button on steriods. It has nothing to do with the DVR's purpose and thus is an unneccessary distraction to future development of the platform. Frantically jumping back and forth between two simultaneous programs is the polar opposite of the DVR's primary goal of making multiple programs available to watch in their entirety on one's own, relaxed schedule.

    [​IMG]

    BJ
     
  7. Apr 8, 2008 #1287 of 3895
    Kheldar

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    Are you saying that DLB would cause "stress, confusion, and de-focused behavior" for the viewer? Or that the HR20 device itself would end up with "stress, confusion, and de-focused behavior"?

    If the concern is the DVR itself having "stress, confusion, and de-focused behavior", then I see your point. If adding this feature lessens the HR2x's capability to do everything else it can do (thereby causing the HR2x some "stress, confusion, and de-focused behavior"), then you would be right.

    OTOH, if the hardware can support the DLB feature without breaking other pre-existing capabilities, then bring it on!
     
  8. Apr 8, 2008 #1288 of 3895
    boltjames

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    I think we all want the HR20 to be the very best-in-class product it can be.

    The very best-in-class products do one thing and do that one thing very well. Think of truly great products; they all are built this way. iTunes. Organizes and simplifies media. iPod. Plays back media to those on the go. Pencil. Writes and erases text or sketches. Staple. Holds multiple pages together.

    A world-class DVR needs to provide the user with a listing of programs to choose from, record those programs accurately, and organize them for later viewing consistently. It relieves the viewer of the stress of decision making by allowing the recording of another program while one watches something else, and allows future programs to be automatically recorded without interaction. That's what it does. It's a Digital Video RECORDER. It's not a Cable Box. It's not A Noisy Channel Changer. It's a RECORDER. It records things. It's the VCR with a more stable recording medium and a computerized listing of program choices.

    It was the TELEVISION TUNER that needed the "jump" button, because the television tuner had no ability to record a program while the other was being watched.

    It was the VCR that tried to allow a relaxing experience but failed due to complexity and necessary human interaction.

    The DVR is the VCR on steriods.

    DLB is a television tuner's "jump" button on steriods.

    DLB is old school television for those that can't let go, it has no place on a DVR, and that's the reason why it wasn't part of the HR20 feature set.

    BJ
     
  9. Apr 8, 2008 #1289 of 3895
    jheda

    jheda DBSTalk Club Member

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    BJ you are so right. Luckily Apple wouldnt mix the ipod with something like a...........phone. What a failure that would be.............
     
  10. Apr 8, 2008 #1290 of 3895
    boltjames

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    And that's precisely why the iPhone is not a good product. It sells on the premise of being the Jack of all trades, master of none. It's not trying to be the "best" of anything. It's a gigantic compromise.

    Want an iPod with no drive space?

    Want a Camera with no features?

    Want an Internet appliance with turtle-slow surfing speeds?

    Want an Office product that can't download?

    Want a Blackberry replacement with a challenging keyboard?

    Want a Telephone that won't work when you land because the Video player ate up the battery during the flight?

    Thank you for making my point. In spades. I can see why you're a fan, as it's the HR10 circa 2004. An overpriced enthusiasts device, chock full of useless features, bugs, and self-indulgence for the look-at-me crowd. The iPhone will be very good and best-in-class some day- when Apple takes stuff out and focuses on what's important to Mr. & Mrs. Camry and stops catering to the tweak zealots who'll defend it to the death. Sound familiar?

    BJ
     
  11. Apr 8, 2008 #1291 of 3895
    Dr. Booda

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    You just described the HR2x series. How observant, except we aren't buying it, we're leasing it. If it had DLB, then it would be more desirable for those of us who have sports subscriptions.
     
  12. Apr 8, 2008 #1292 of 3895
    mightythor88

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    Also BJ are you saying the Hr2x's should focus on being a DVR and not playing music via mediashare, not do VOD, etc. Just be a fully functioning DVR? If so I have to say I agree with you. I dont need VOD when I have a DVR, I dont need music playing off of my HR2x or the ability to play video's from my computer on it. I dont need MRV either for that matter since I have more than 1 DVR and I damn sure dont need to play games from it when I have a Wii, 360, & a PS3). I need it simply to WORK as a DVR and the majority of "best in breed" DVR's all have 1 thing in common...what's that you ask? DLB.

    Replace Iphone with HR2x's and you have something there.

    No BJ, Thank you for making MY point. In spades, as you say. The Hr2x's are overloaded enthusiasts device, chock full of useless features, bugs, etc. The HR2x will be very good and best-in-class some day- when DTV takes stuff out and focuses on what's important to Mr. & Mrs. TV watcher and stops catering to the tweak zealots who'll defend it to the death.

    Sound familiar???
     
  13. Apr 8, 2008 #1293 of 3895
    Drew2k

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    How is it that you can handle the chores of organizing a Prioritizer, a To Do List, a Playlist and the Guide, yet you can't manage toggling two tuners? DLB permits two tuners to be toggled. Boom. Simple. Two choices: Toggle or don't. With a playlist, you have a choice to watch Live TV, or any of the 30+ hours of programming you already recorded. Wouldn't that be stressful to have to decide what to do? Or stressful to decide what to record in the first place? Your very reason for arguing against DLB is debunked because DLB would not introduce any more "complexity" (as you argue) than the choices currently facing HR2X users.
     
  14. Apr 8, 2008 #1294 of 3895
    btmoore

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    I would of liked to see the money they spent on writing and testing the guide spam go into DLB.
     
  15. Apr 8, 2008 #1295 of 3895
    James Long

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    DLB is not apparently affecting income. Guide spam is income. :)
     
  16. Apr 9, 2008 #1296 of 3895
    GrumpyBear

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    I agree to that, I have used PiP on purpose 3-4 times max, on my 622. I use the swap to take advantage of the DLB.
     
  17. Apr 9, 2008 #1297 of 3895
    GrumpyBear

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    It would be interesting, to see how DLB would effect sales/Leases, if they offered it on of the Newer MPEG4 machines. Right now D* says you want to see the the NEW HD channels you have NO choice, but to upgrade to a wayback machine, that is stuck with 1970's on how it works, only thing that isn't 70's based, is it allows you, NOT to use a Tape.
     
  18. Apr 9, 2008 #1298 of 3895
    Doug Brott

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    You do have a point, there.
     
  19. Apr 9, 2008 #1299 of 3895
    Doug Brott

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    First off, let me make it clear that I would like to see DLB. I'm living fine without it so I'm definitely not an evangelist or champion for the cause, but it would be a nice to have.

    Now that that's out of the way, I doubt that the overall sales are being adversely affected by the lack of the feature. Some will not buy the service because of it, but many will:

    1. not know DLB's not there
    2. not know what DLB is
    3. Accept or tolerate DLB's absence (including those "stuck" in a commitment)
    4. Leave DIRECTV or choose to not join DIRECTV because of the lack of a true DLB

    IMHO, I believe that the first three will be sufficiently high to make the fourth item negligible. Over time, that formula may change. However, from a business perspective, there are other fish to fry at the moment. Hopefully one day we'll see this great DLB, but for now all we are left to do is ask "what if?"
     
  20. Apr 9, 2008 #1300 of 3895
    boltjames

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    Your post is dead-on.

    For most of us, NFL Sunday Ticket is the "killer-app" of D*. They could double my prices, take away my beloved 'native' mode, and call my mother names but I'd still stay happily subscribed for the NFL package.

    And there are plenty of others out there who'd let D* stick it to them for the benefit of any TV at all (where cable isn't an option in remote areas), getting local NHL/MLB/NBA (for those that have relocated to another city), and having a stellar HD package (all those great new channels, many not available on their cable provider).

    DLB isn't a deal-breaker for most users who turned to D* instead of cable for one of the above-mentioned features. And, as you point out, most of them didn't have a clue it was even there on their prior STB's.

    BJ
     
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