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What xponders/sats does guide info arrive on?

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by TomCat, Oct 20, 2013.

  1. TomCat

    TomCat Broadcast Engineer

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    I got a message that I had not received guide info for over an hour. Checking readings, all really looks pretty good. I am on a SL5 LNBF. This may be related to possible switching issues that I have been suspecting. I've had a few blank recordings also.

    Do we know what transponders the guide info arrives on? Is there a list somewhere that tells us what services are on what transponders, including spots?

    TIA
     
  2. dpeters11

    dpeters11 Hall Of Fame

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  3. texasbrit

    texasbrit DIRECTV A-Team

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    This problem nearly always means the line of sight to the 119 satellite is blocked for some reason. When you are tuned to a channel from the 99/101 satellites the guide comes from 101. When you are tuned to a channel on 103/119 the guide data comes from 119.
    What are your 119 signals (all transponders)?
     
  4. TomCat

    TomCat Broadcast Engineer

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    I've got clear line of sight, second story, no trees at all, nearest building of same (actually a little lower) height is 75' away. 119 levels are actually a little higher now than in this attached screen shot.
     

    Attached Files:

  5. TomCat

    TomCat Broadcast Engineer

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    If you have a SL3 does 103 info come from somewhere else other than 119?
     
  6. DB Stalker

    DB Stalker New Member

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    If you have a SL3 does 103 info come from somewhere else other than 119?
    if you have the SL3 LNB then you get your guide data from the 101


    #)
     
  7. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

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    Briefly for the "Fast PIDs" anyhow, used for rapid APG updates.

    101 SD guide data comes from Tp. 2 on D9S at 101

    Guide data for the HD birds at 99 and 103 comes from Tp. 31 at 101

    Guide data for 95W (World Direct service) comes from transponder 1 on G3C

    Guide data for 110 is only for Puerto Rico is from Tp. 8 (actually Tp, 28) on D5

    Guide data for 119 Ku is from Tp. 26 on D7S at 119.

    For guide data of the HD local channels, the particular transponder used varies by market.
     
  8. texasbrit

    texasbrit DIRECTV A-Team

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    Not quite. Guide data for 103 Ka also comes from 119 and if you are tuned to a 103 channel with a non-SWM 5LNB that's the one it uses.
     
  9. peds48

    peds48 DIRECTV A-Team DBSTalk Club

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    So then for a SWM 5LNB, the guide data comes from the 101?
     
  10. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

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    Yes, but by means of "Slow PIDs" which are distributed randomly over many transponders I understand.

    From the information I have there is no dedicated transponder on 119 for sending APG guide data for HD channels as "Fast PIDs."
     
  11. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

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    Yep ...
     
  12. texasbrit

    texasbrit DIRECTV A-Team

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    Yes, for all SWM systems, including those where a non-SWM LNB is at the dish and then connected by cables to an SWM8/16 multiswitch. The guide data is carried on a separate SWM channel between the SWM switch (either the one at the dish or the SWM8/16) and always comes from 101.
     
  13. peds48

    peds48 DIRECTV A-Team DBSTalk Club

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    Yes, for all SWM systems, including those where a non-SWM LNB is at the dish and then connected by cables to an SWM8/16 multiswitch. The guide data is carried on a separate SWM channel between the SWM switch (either the one at the dish or the SWM8/16) and always comes from 101.
    so why the redundancy, redundancy....

    why not have the guide data from the 101 regardless of LNB


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
     
  14. Diana C

    Diana C Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    Because if you are using a non-SWM stacked multiswitch infrastructure there are times where no 101 transponders are visible to the receiver. For example, if you are watching a HD channel on 103, then the receiver can only see 110/119 in the 950 to 1450 MHz IF band.

    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

  15. texasbrit

    texasbrit DIRECTV A-Team

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    Following on DianaC' s post;

    The stacking plan for DirecTV is:
    99 and 101 signals are together
    103/110/119 signals are together

    You can see this on the input connectors for any of the multiswitches.
    That means that in a conventional non-SWM system, when the receiver is tuned to a 103 transponder (for example) it only gets signals from 103/110/119, it does not see 101 at all. So it is getting the guide data from 119.

    When DirecTv introduced the 3LNB non-SWM LNB, there was a design problem to be solved. How to get the guide data onto the cable to the receiver when it was tuned to a 103 transponder. There's no 119 signal, so no guide. So the 3LNB LNB is different electrically from the 5LNB. It takes the 101 guide data, and puts it with the 103 signals so the receiver thinks the data is coming from 119, even though it is not. That way the receivers get the guide data even when they don't see 101.
    And that's also the reason why telling a receiver connected to a non-SWM 5LNB that it is connected to a 3LNB does not solve a 119 line of sight issue. The 5LNB electronics don't put the 101 guide with the 103 signals, so when tuned to a 103 channel the receiver gets no guide if 119 is not there.

    SWM made life easier. Because the guide isn't carried "with" any particular satellite's signals, it is carried on a separate channel, the SWM electronics can take the 101 data and use it all the time.
     
  16. twaller

    twaller DIRECTV A-Team

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    Wow, I learn something new every day. I have an SL5, and a few years ago I had a LOS issue with the 119, and had guide data problems. I got rid of a tree and now have no issues with 119. In June I upgraded to a SWM 16. So now what you are saying is that even if I have LOS issues with the 119, the guide data will come from 101 regardless of the channel the receiver is tuned to.


    Sent from my iPhone using DBSTalk
     
  17. peds48

    peds48 DIRECTV A-Team DBSTalk Club

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    one more Q, does the same applies for a 18x20 LNB?
     
  18. TomCat

    TomCat Broadcast Engineer

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    This is all great stuff.

    I found a major clue to my failed recordings/missing guide data issue (you may notice another thread where I suspect the switch in the LNBF and am replacing it with SWM just on general principles).

    Non-SWM at the moment, I have four cables coming from the SL5. I plan to reuse one of them. There are F-81 barrels in all just behind the dish, as the cables were there for a nearby Phase III dish replaced in 2007(?). I opened and inspected all four, and found some minor discoloration, which I burnished and then reconnected all four. As I was checking signal on sats on all four DVRs (which I figured I might want to do in case the signal interrupt made one go stupid) I found this anomaly on one DVR:

    On 103s and only on one tuner, all transponders were missing. Not on other DVRs, which rules out the LNB part of the feedhorn, but not the switch part. I changed the sat setup to some weird sat, rebooted, and then changed it back to SL5, hoping that would blow out a corrupted config, and restore a good one. Just after the reboot, the transponders were no longer missing.

    OK, that means it could be the DVR, or it still could be the switch. I already ordered the SWM SL3, so that will pretty much narrow things down if I continue to have issues. Probably a good opportunity to repeak anyway, which has not ever been done.

    The missing transponders included those from the local spots (thanks, dpeters, for the spreadsheet). And those were where the failed recordings were (Elementary, The Crazy Ones, Tomorrow People).

    Thanks everyone. It's nice to have detailed sat info when troubleshooting an intermittent issue this surgically.
     
  19. texasbrit

    texasbrit DIRECTV A-Team

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    Yes, it's the same stack plan, but of course there is no 99 or 103 to worry about, so the only transponders that need the 119 guide are the ones on 119 (and 110 if you are in PR, I guess).
    So for example if you have a single receiver connected to an 18x20 phase III dish, by one cable, the signalling from the receiver selects either 101, or using the 22KHz tone, 119, and that is what the dish sends you. 110 is mapped so it looks like part of the 119 transponder set. So when you are watching a 101 channel, the guide comes from 101. When you are watching a 110/119 channel, the guide comes from 119.
     
  20. texasbrit

    texasbrit DIRECTV A-Team

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    If you have zero signal on all the 103s transponders on just one tuner, but the 103ca and 103cb signals are all OK on the same tuner, that's pretty strange. Try swapping over the two cables but leaving the BBCs where they are. If the problem moves to the other tuner, that points to a problem with the cable or multiswitch. If the problem stays on the same tuner, leave the cables as they are (i.e. swapped) and swap the BBCs. If the problem now moves to the other tuner, you have a faulty BBC.
     

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