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When one SWiM isn't enough

Discussion in 'DIRECTV Connected Home' started by veryoldschool, Jul 18, 2012.

  1. Mar 16, 2013 #61 of 111
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    I might have a spare SWiM LNB to lend but I want pictures. :lol:
     
  2. Mar 16, 2013 #62 of 111
    P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    I promised !
     
  3. Mar 16, 2013 #63 of 111
    AntAltMike

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    Several years ago, someone posted supposedly "exact" SWM center frequencies, and they actually had digits to the right of the decimal point, so if that post was accurate ( and I recall it was from a regular contributor here), then describing the spacing as 102 MHz is "more exact" than is calling it 100 MHz spacing, but it is not absolutely exact.

    I use a field-grade portable spectrum analyzer with an 8 MHz wide bandwidth when I infrequently service SWM systems. Unfortunately, the displayed wave form is the intermediate frequency waveform that is the composite of the frequency shifted transponder signal and the local oscillator, so I can't tell much of anything by looking at one.

    Because of the AGC, I can't even peak a dish that way. I have to remove the SWM and temporarily install a WB or whatever those LNBs are popularly called, peak the dish, and then reinstall the SWM.

    I remember a few years ago seeing that some of the Ka band transponder center frequencies posted on Lyngsat were spaced further apart than were others, so if anyone with a spectrum analyzer on his hands takes it upon himself to first determine which programs are carried on which transponders and then selects programs from different width transponders and then looks at and compares the shapes of the different SWM intermediate frequency waveforms, he might learn something useful, or he might find that the narrowly loaded ones and more widely loaded ones look about the same on the spectrum analyzer screen because the waveform is overwhelmingly shaped by the local oscillator component of it.

    Insofar as picking 102 versus 100 MHz for spacing is concerned, since DirecTV has that IF bandwidth available and since it is not artificially constricted in its engineering by any round decimal values, they may well have done some complex engineering analysis regarding the development of intermodulation byproducts and have determined that within the bandwith parameters that they have, that 102 MHs spacing is simply optimal for minimizing them. I have previously been told that the decisions to invert the upper L-band intermediate frequencies and the decision that NAS had made in its earlier versions of multisatellite destackers to use a different frequency offset than DirecTV favored was based on such engineering considerations.
     
  4. Mar 16, 2013 #64 of 111
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Might be time to start up another thread as this thread is about using more than one SWiM and ways to combine the DECA signals between them.
     
  5. Mar 18, 2013 #65 of 111
    SomeRandomIdiot

    SomeRandomIdiot Godfather

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    I have 4 NAS here that I previously ordered. Just trying to grasp why they are needed if I have an extra leg on the 4 port splitter to take a feed off of and combine. As thus, it has nothing to do with costs. Just seems that taking the diplexer out of the equation would improve signal loss.

    Also, fwiw, the SWiM32 seems to be running much cooler than the SWiM16s that were replaced. In Air Conditioned room where the SWiM16s were measured at 116F via a Fluke IR Thermometer, the SWiM32 is only running 94F. Its unknown whether this is a result of larger surface area, the different supplier or the fact that I am not powering the LNBs through the SWM32s (it would seem that might generate some internal heat in a SWM8 or SWM16). Whatever the reason, its 22F cooler.

    As VOS noted on another thread (somewhere on site), that still does not answer questions about life expectancy, but I would hope lower heat = longer life.
     
  6. Mar 18, 2013 #66 of 111
    HoTat2

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    The diplexers are necessary, in fact indispensable for this application, to separate and isolate the SWiM satellite signal paths from the DECA (MoCA) network signal paths.

    They allow each of the four SWiM-8 circuits (two SWiM-16s) comprising 9 RF carriers + a 2.3 MHz control signal to remain confined to one of four isolated signal paths, while the paths for the DECA network signals are combined into one overall cloud.
     
  7. Mar 18, 2013 #67 of 111
    veryoldschool

    veryoldschool Lifetime Achiever Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Add a 475-625 MHz bandpass filter to this and it would work.

    Actually this isn't quite true either.

    You could connect the NAS diplexer to splitters on each of the SWiM-16s and terminate the unused port. This would bridge the DECA between the two, but the losses would mean you couldn't go from one SWiM output through the crossover to the other output and then do the same on the other SWiM-16.
    The only combination that would work would be using only 2-way splitters and keeping the coax runs no longer than 50'
     
  8. Jul 31, 2013 #68 of 111
    Robster138

    Robster138 New Member

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    Very awesome!
     
  9. Aug 12, 2013 #69 of 111
    ljg1118

    ljg1118 AllStar

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    Is there currently any workaround to the limit of 10 Clients per DVR, or a work around to select which clients a DVR can be shared with?
     
  10. Nov 29, 2015 #70 of 111
    Lord Vader

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    Hey, VOS, for those who have Whole Home using DECA, which schematic would be recommended? The above one or the one here:

    [​IMG]



    I would think the one with Whole Home DECA illustrated; however, I don't see where the 4 cables from the dish would go.
     
  11. Nov 29, 2015 #71 of 111
    peds48

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    I am not VOS, but the latter would be recommended when more than one SWM is used. the sat input would be the same as you have now. from the dish to the 6x8 to the two SWM16s


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  12. Nov 29, 2015 #72 of 111
    Lord Vader

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    I guess what I am trying to figure out is where exactly would my 6x8 be placed in that above (the latter one) schematic?
     
  13. Nov 29, 2015 #73 of 111
    peds48

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    Nothing would change as how you are feeding the SWM16s. Only thing that would change is that you would remove the CCKs and replaced the LAN connection with one CCK and the diplexers

    IIRC, when this came about, VOS recommended to use this set up but you decided to give it a go and use what you had at the time which was the 6x8 and the 2 CCKs. I actually like using the 6x8 instead of the power passing splitters as there is no loss compared to using splitters. the reason why DirecTV likes the splitters better is cost.


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  14. Nov 29, 2015 #74 of 111
    Lord Vader

    Lord Vader Supreme Member DBSTalk Club

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    The reason I resurrected this is because maybe, just maybe, I could rewire the whole setup to match the schematic and possibly resolve my Whole Home connectivity issues with my Genie and HR22. Of course, that could very well not have any relevance to my problem.

    So, to see if understand you correctly, because I have the 6x8, I wouldn't even need the 4 splitters that are shown in the schematics above, right? In other words, was I suggesting something that would be unnecessarily redundant?
     
  15. Nov 29, 2015 #75 of 111
    peds48

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    On the las t schematic it shows 4 NAS diplexers that you would need to feed the single BroadBand DECA to all of the 4 SMW16s outputs (2 outposts on each switch). The splitters going to the boxes don't necessarily have to be 4 ways. If you have 2 ways and 8 ways that would work as well.

    Pretty much what you would be re-wiring is AFTER the SWM16s, nothing before them gets touched.
     
  16. Nov 29, 2015 #76 of 111
    Lord Vader

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    Well, I have 5 of the 4-ways, so I might as well use them. It looks like a very short coax runs from each of the 4 diplexers to the 4-ways, right?
     
  17. Nov 29, 2015 #77 of 111
    peds48

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    if you install the diplexers right by the SWM16s then you would need very short coax jumpers.


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  18. Nov 29, 2015 #78 of 111
    Lord Vader

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    The two SWM16s are on the exterior of the building on my balcony--easily accessible by me, but the diplexers would have to go right below them according to what I just observed when looking at the SWM16s.
     
  19. Nov 30, 2015 #79 of 111
    inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    Vader I am basically using this setup myself and it is really nice. Especially since it allows me to see all deca signal strength screens. With that said how many tuners in your system now? And how many actual boxes as well? Might be able to go to the new swim lnb. It does 21 tuners off one line. Super simplifies a lot of things for many.
     
  20. Nov 30, 2015 #80 of 111
    Lord Vader

    Lord Vader Supreme Member DBSTalk Club

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    Total number of tuners = 21 among 9 boxes (if my late night memory is correct).

    Tell me more about this new lnb.

    Keep in mind that because I ended up going with a 6x8 multiswitch cascading to two SWM16s, I ditched my previous dish setup of a single-wire SWM and went to a legacy lnb setup: 4 cables from the dish into the 6x8.
     

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