1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Why after more than 2 years is the HR2x so buggy?

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by drill, Oct 12, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Oct 15, 2008 #81 of 129
    Mike Bertelson

    Mike Bertelson 6EQUJ5 WOW! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    14,040
    94
    Jan 24, 2007
    There definitely seems as if there is a disconnect in the logic of assignint priority to the manual recording and recording something on live TV.

    Did you post this problem in the issues thread? It's important because it's read by DirecTV and you'll be sure they've seen your problem.

    Mike
     
  2. Oct 15, 2008 #82 of 129
    ticmxman

    ticmxman Legend

    282
    1
    Aug 27, 2007
    Well said! With a title like this thread has if I was a potential new customer and if there was no balance with some reports of no issues I would be scared off from D* HDDVRs and IMHO that would be wrong. The thing that this forum is so good at is trying to help look at setups etc and resolve a problem and share info so a post pro or con should always be welcome.

    I look foward to the next release. I think I've missed 1 recording in a years use, the lip sinc issue seems to have been adressed either localy or by D*. I'm a pleased customer.
     
  3. Oct 15, 2008 #83 of 129
    hasan

    hasan Well-Known Member

    5,957
    54
    Sep 22, 2006
    Ogden, IA
    If someone doesn't want to hear others' experience or an outright rebuttle (which is normally not necessary), then don't post. All forums work this way.

    Should I post, "I don't want to hear from anyone having problems?"

    We need data points on all sides of any issue that appears to be affecting these boxes. If some are and some aren't having the problem, there has to be a reason. The number of those having a particular problem, their setups and usage patterns provide invaluable information that may lead to a solution. Conversely, those not affected must have or be doing something different, from those who are.

    All of this comes from personalizing responses, i.e., taking someone's comments about their experience with these boxes as if it were a personal issue ...which it isn't. These are inanimate objects, folks.:)

    When someone posts an inflammatory comment or assessment which contradicts the reader's experience, it invites those with opposing experience to comment. Expecting them not to is ...well...shortsighted.

    My HR21-200/AM21 has several obvious issues, that make using the box less than enjoyable, but its basic functionality is not impaired, in most cases. It needs work, and a lot of it in a few specific areas. I could ask, why is this particular combo so buggy, but that's the wrong question...in fact, it's less a question than an assertion so broadly stated that it conveys very little information and ends up setting a tone for disagreement while all the required help is lost in the noise. This combo has specific problems that do not plague the HR20 series or even the HR21-200 without the AM21.

    If someone is not having the problems that have been discussed with the HR21-200/AM21 combo, I would love to hear from them. They hold important clues for the eventual solution of my issues. So instead of putting fingers in one's ears and blabbering over and over again, "I don't want to hear it, I don't want to hear it, I don't want to hear it"....ad nauseusm", I take the opposite position....I'm all ears!:)

    My HR20-700 and HR20-100 are both very, very good across the board, and in no way would I characterize them as "so buggy". They aren't perfect, but mine are quite good.

    So, let's step back, take a deep breath and realize that all of us want these boxes to perform, and the way to get there is to share information accurately, thoroughly and respectfully. These extraneous recriminations, hand wringing, hand waving and assorted finger-pointing histrionics serve no purpose other than an imaginary catharsis for people who are frustrated.

    These responses contribute nothing to the ultimate solution (assuring continuing frustration). Let's stick to our knitting and move on. Considering the efforts by both users and D* itself, we have every reason to expect continuing progress. It may not be as fast or in the area any one individual is interested in, but substantial progress is evident to anyone who has been watching for a while.

    Keep listing your problems and associated background and look carefully at those people who are not having the same experience. Answering the simple question, "Why are they not having the problem?" is the key to an eventual solution. So instead of telling them to shut up or you don't want to hear it, invite the contrary experience, as it is most likely to contain the very information you need to get the problem fixed.
     
  4. Oct 15, 2008 #84 of 129
    dbronstein

    dbronstein Hall Of Fame

    1,191
    27
    Oct 21, 2002
    Right. To use the broken down on the highway analogy, it's like seeing someone broken down so you pull over. You ask them if you can help and they go into a tirade about how all the cars are pieces of crap and they don't work right and they can't believe the manufacturer can keep selling these things because they suck so bad and on and on. Every time you attempt to offer to look under the hood or try to help resolve the problem, they keep ranting and raving about how the cars are all crap. There's no point in sticking around since the person clearly doesn't want help, they just want to bitch and moan, so you get in the car and leave.

    It goes both ways. If you want constructive help with problems, then post in a constructive way. If you just post that all the HR-20s suck, then you're going to get a bunch of replies from people who say their boxes work great. If you post that you're having XXX problem and you're looking for help, you'll replies from people trying to help you.
     
  5. Oct 15, 2008 #85 of 129
    harsh

    harsh Beware the Attack Basset

    21,192
    183
    Jun 14, 2003
    Salem, OR
    Is the point helping the user that is having problems or being fanboys and apologists for the brand? Look back at the trouble reports and you'll find that many of the initial responses are that the problem doesn't exist and in a few rare cases, the troubled user is directly or indirectly implicated as a loser.

    Those that are having the problems need to:

    1. find a quick solution
    2. be able to identify whether the problem is something that is worth pursuing a replacement

    Hearing someone state only that they are substantially (or even entirely) trouble free suggests that everyone with a problem needs to pursue replacement receivers and/or truck rolls.

    If you want to establish statistics, use a carefully crafted poll.

    If you don't want to have too many threads, point questioners at existing threads and encourage searching.
     
  6. Oct 15, 2008 #86 of 129
    paulman182

    paulman182 Hall Of Fame

    4,839
    3
    Aug 4, 2006
    Harsh, the title of this thread is a good illustration of why some of us feel compelled to post of our success with the hardware.

    The thread title is not "Why is MY HR2x so buggy?" or "Why are SOME HR2xs so buggy?" Not even "Why are MOST Hr2xs so buggy?"

    From the very first post, the thread is worded in such a way as to invite controversy.
     
  7. Oct 15, 2008 #87 of 129
    bobcamp1

    bobcamp1 Icon

    896
    1
    Nov 8, 2007
    Ha! You just did the one thing you said you wouldn't do! If you are going to post a "no problems" post, give details on your setup. Where do you live, what packages you signed up for, all equipment used, full list of everything you recorded, etc. The problem I see with the "no problems here" posters is that they don't do this. If they don't do this, then it is impossible to establish a pattern. These threads simply come and go with no resolution.

    The same goes for people having problems, too. If you want to do D*'s work for them, since they are clearly unable to do it, we need full participation from you as well.

    FYI, I'm a six sigma green belt. After two years, if this many boxes are still having problems, then they are garbage. There are simply way too many complaints and software updates that are not related to new features.

    D* simply doesn't care enough to fix the major problems some of you are having. I didn't say they didn't care -- I said they don't care ENOUGH. D*'s future solution will be to offer these people a free upgrade to DirecTivo software (hey, at least this will be a major test point to see if it's the software or hardware at fault).
     
  8. Oct 15, 2008 #88 of 129
    barryb

    barryb New Member

    2,937
    3
    Aug 26, 2007
    Some of the problems I am reading here could also be the result of overheated DVR's.

    None of us like how hot these boxes get. We can ALL agree on that. I have seen at least one of my units get locked up after overheating. Its most certainly worth it for Directv to look into this as a lot of subscribers have their components placed in areas where heat cannot dissipate properly. An overheated DVR can in fact lock up.

    I read twice about posting signal strengths. Can those who are having problems kindly post their results?
     
  9. Oct 15, 2008 #89 of 129
    hasan

    hasan Well-Known Member

    5,957
    54
    Sep 22, 2006
    Ogden, IA
    More specificity is good, to be sure, but every little bit helps. If I hear someone say they are trouble free on an issue I'm experiencing it doesn't suggest to me what you say above...it does cause me to think about the problem and try to get more context before I jump to some silly conclusion. A lot can be learned in a short time (roll truck or not, for example), with a smattering of reports and a bit of helpful troubleshooting. In depth problem solving requires much more detail, as you note above, but just knowing that a lot of people do or don't have the problem, can get one started.

    ...and being in a hurry for a quick solution is a bad start.:)
     
  10. Oct 15, 2008 #90 of 129
    Mike Bertelson

    Mike Bertelson 6EQUJ5 WOW! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    14,040
    94
    Jan 24, 2007
    The OP responded to questions and we seem to have determined it's an incorrect behavior of manual recordings.

    However, others have been encouraged to start a thread but they don't seem to have tried to get help yet.

    All we can do is try. ;)

    Mike
     
  11. Oct 15, 2008 #91 of 129
    t_h

    t_h Icon

    819
    1
    Mar 7, 2008
    I think the good question may be, if most problems people have with the HR's is due to signal problems, bad lnbs, bad units or overheating problems...then why does directv keep sending out new releases every few months with 10-20 bug fixes for "recording problems" "tuning robustness" and other issues that appear related to problems with recordings?

    To help the .25% of people that have problems? Right.

    I'll say it again...a lot of people who say they have had no problems with the HR's dont seem to be very heavy users of the product. Seems most of the people who have trouble are folks who have put 50 SL's on there, do lots of back to back and overlapping recordings and use the box heavily.

    That whole "usage model" thing is an enormous factor in the performance and issues associated with a complex device.

    My mother in law still uses a ~10 year old computer with windows 95 on it. Its never been connected to the internet. Its base windows 95, no patches. She only types letters on it and stores/retrieves recipes.

    She's never had a crash or noted anything wrong with it and has no plans to upgrade or replace it. She's never had a virus or a worm, or had anything bad happen to the computer.

    Has that been everyone elses experience with Windows?

    Mmmm hmmm...
     
  12. Oct 15, 2008 #92 of 129
    Mike Bertelson

    Mike Bertelson 6EQUJ5 WOW! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    14,040
    94
    Jan 24, 2007
    New releases aren't just about bug fixes.

    They are also about features. After all, Directv has to make sure they remain competitive.

    Before anyone yells at me that the receivers need to work to be competitive, you would be right.

    However, for the most part they do work.

    Otherwise they would be losing subscribers, which they aren't.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSN0727662320080807

    BTW, I'm a heavy user of my DVRs. I have two in the livingroom to eliminate the recording conflicts. All my DVRs are networked. I do Media Share, VOD, Directv2PC. One DVR is connected to an AM21 and all three are on SWM. Oh, and I have very few issues. :grin:

    I could be wrong but IMHO, most issues are related to installation.

    Mike
     
  13. Oct 15, 2008 #93 of 129
    jwd45244

    jwd45244 Hall Of Fame

    1,510
    0
    Aug 18, 2006
    I feel badly for the the people that are having problems. We want to figure out what is going on with your DVRs to help you get the most out of it.

    Some of the things that can help us help you is as complete a description of your setup as possible. We need things like dish type. Installer or self-install. Type of cabling (RG6 vs. RG59). How many feet of cable between Dish and either multi-switch or DVR. type of cable-end connectors? (crimp or compression) Dish grounded? DVR? Using surge protectors or not. Networked? if so how?

    The more information the better. This is a vary complex environment and no installation is exactly like the others.
     
  14. Oct 15, 2008 #94 of 129
    Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

    26,992
    522
    Feb 22, 2007
    Piscataway, NJ
    Out of sheer ignorance I feel compelled to ask: What is a six sigma green belt?

    It has been a rough two years. Better now, much better. And if I could find a provider that was better than D* I would opt out and start over anew. But show me a better provider.

    I don't think it is that they don't care enough, I think it is because they don't know enough. Talked to any CSRs lately? Frustrating isn't it?

    I don't think we are ever going to see an upgrade to TiVo software. I think the same thing that happened with UTV and the original D* TiVos will happen again. You send a bad receiver back and get a HD TiVo in return. Slowly but surely, TiVo will creep back into it's previous position as D*'s DVR of choice and the HRs will sleep with the Ultimate TV DVRs.

    The opinions offered above are just that: opinions. My opinions based on my experiences. Nothing against D*. They jumped into a situation that they and their equipment were not ready for. I don't think they have failed miserably, but their willingness to allow TiVo to climb back on the bandwagon is an admission of their obvious need for help.

    Rich
     
  15. Oct 15, 2008 #95 of 129
    dbronstein

    dbronstein Hall Of Fame

    1,191
    27
    Oct 21, 2002
    Define "heavy user". I have "only" about 30 SLs, but I do a lot of back to back and overlapping recordings. On some nights I have 5 or 6 recordings in a 3 hour window going. A few of the SLs are for kids shows that record every day and are set to autodelete, so they are deleting every day. I have my HR 20 networked and I use on demand once or twice a week. I think I'm a fairly heavy user, and I've never had a problem.
     
  16. Oct 15, 2008 #96 of 129
    dbronstein

    dbronstein Hall Of Fame

    1,191
    27
    Oct 21, 2002
    Maybe. Or it could be that they saw an opportunity to make some money. We'll never know the full reasons behind the move, but at the bottom of it is that they think it will be a money maker for them.
     
  17. Oct 15, 2008 #97 of 129
    David MacLeod

    David MacLeod New Member

    5,689
    0
    Jan 29, 2008
    I expect its symbiotic and just as profitable to Tivo.
     
  18. Oct 15, 2008 #98 of 129
    Shades228

    Shades228 DaBears

    6,081
    45
    Mar 18, 2008
    John Malone in charge of D* and we had TiVo

    News Corp gets control of D* and then we start getting D* branded DVR's made with software from a News Corp company.

    John Malone in charge of D* TiVo is back.

    Now there are probably more reasons but I would say this one is the biggie.

    Here's the old news article in case people wonder if this is true or not.

    http://digital-lifestyles.info/2004/11/30/nds-threaten-tivo-with-directv-pvr/
     
  19. Oct 15, 2008 #99 of 129
    Mike Bertelson

    Mike Bertelson 6EQUJ5 WOW! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

    14,040
    94
    Jan 24, 2007
    I'm not sure I would agree.

    Directv's subscribership is rising without TiVo so it's not like they're hurting.

    It's just a guess but I think it's about a business partnership not a bailout.

    Mike
     
  20. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

    26,992
    522
    Feb 22, 2007
    Piscataway, NJ
    They already have a business partnership in place with TiVo. I was told this by a member of the Case Management Group when I questioned him about the lack of DLBs on the HRs. Whether you choose to believe him is up to you. I spent an hour talking to him about various subjects related to D* and their services and I believed him. Make of it what you will. That conversation took place before the announcement was made about TiVo making HD TiVos for D*.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page