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Why do Americans (as a whole) dislike Soccer?

Discussion in 'Sports Programming and Events' started by jaywdetroit, Mar 2, 2007.

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  1. Jul 1, 2007 #121 of 346
    Chandu

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    Actually, this says more about the random televised soccer you (and general American public) might have seen on TV than generically translating well to TV watching. Comparing televised soccer produced by American TV channels to that produced by TV channels in countries where it's a mainstream sport is like comparing amateur college TV news productions to professional news channel productions.

    For one thing, American TV channels employ cameramen who do not have years of background or connection to the sport at all. They tend to use camera angles as well as zoom ratios from sport they're more familiar with e.g. baseball which cannot possibly translate to soccer. The most vital part of soccer presentation which is showing how plays develop, as well as a lot of crucial off the ball runs get lost in the details. Some atrocious zoom ratios show individual players as microscopic figures running around aimlessly on the ground without any connection to the game as a whole. Lay over this with constant chattering of commentators whose style is more amenable for American sports with lots of breaks in them e.g. baseball or American Football, showing irrelevant shots such as kids eating lollipops in the crowd, and it becomes a juvenile product. I've heard atrocious play calling where the commentator isn't even aware of the relevance of some of the important plays taking place, so it's impossible that they would say anything about this.

    Some of the best TV coverage I've experienced recently in SD has been the German Bundesliga. Of course it also helps that the stadium atmosphere and crowd involvement has been some of the best in Bundesliga as well, so it helps selling it as a top-notch polished product.
     
  2. Jul 2, 2007 #122 of 346
    purtman

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    I'm glad to see that you know which games that Packfan99 watches and the fact that they are just "random". I'm also glad to see that you know the background of the cameramen who cover the games.

    If you don't like American TV producers nor the fact that soccer isn't No. 1 nor will it ever be No. 1 in this country, there are plenty of airports to take you somewhere else in the world. We also have some borders that will allow you to cross them with no problem. Go for it.
     
  3. Jul 2, 2007 #123 of 346
    Upstream

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    The lack of soccer's popularity has nothing to do with how it plays on television. Soccer wasn't popular long before there was television.
     
  4. Jul 2, 2007 #124 of 346
    Chandu

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    The fact that he said he hasn't watched a single one in HD itself gives away that what he has been watching are some random events. But go ahead, be Packfan99's guest and answer all of his threads on his behalf. Knock yourself out.

    Well, guess what? I'm in fact deeply familiar with the background of a number of them. Now what? Should I undertake the project of "un-knowing" this? Be glad.

    I'm glad you put the word "If" in front of your statement to make it vacuous. Also I'm glad that you can demonstrate your extrapolation skills by jumping from "American TV producers who covered soccer games" to "American TV producers".

    :rolling: !rolling

    Now there is some serious **** being smoked in that statement. Here, I have this little exercise for you. Since you seem to take the freedom of volunteering to answer for other people, I'll take the freedom of volunteering to give you this exercise.

    Do a search in this thread for my posts, (and I'm sure you won't have any problem getting hits for such a search) and show me where I made above statement, or even I personally like or dislike something about soccer's ranking on the totem pole in this country.

    Since you're making such a categorical statement, notwithstanding the vacuous "if", the burden of proof lies on you. Hyperbolize much? Come on, PROVE IT!!!

    Go ahead, buster!!! Go for it!!! This will be a great reading comprehension lesson for you. :up:

    No. 1. :rolleyes:

    Ahem, let's see. This one is the most hilarious one!!!! Where do we start?

    Since you seem to think one needs to take oneself "somewhere else in the world" to watch events being produced on TV "somewhere else in the world", I would imagine you're unfamiliar with these little technological innovations called "satellite transmissions". That too, on a forum called dbstalk.com, no less. I also take it that you would be completely unaware that USA happens to be one of most unique countries on the face of this planet, leading in the total aggregate diversity of televised soccer from all over the world, both the number of matches being televised, as well the various leagues/competitions from various regions on this planet.

    But go ahead. Continue to live in your hyperbolized existence, volunteering to reply on other posters' behalf, volunteering to make vacuous statements on other posters' behalf and volunteering to escort other posters to an airport or land border crossing.

    Seriously, keep it up!!! :up:
     
  5. Jul 2, 2007 #125 of 346
    durl

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    Soccer may become more popular in the US but it will take time. Personally I don't care for it but I used to not like hockey and now I enjoy it. In soccer there's a lot of running for little in return for my taste.

    Hockey may have low scoring at times but the action is fast paced in a smaller area.

    Baseball is slow but at least we know one of 2 things will happen soon: a batter will get on base or he'll make an out.

    Soccer is run, run, run, kick, run, run, run, kick, kick, run (another 30 yards), tap, run, run, run, run, kick, steal, kick, run, run, run, run....for 90 minutes.

    For those who have seen the Simpson's episode where a soccer match comes to Springfield, you'll see my perspective.

    In any business there are those who try anything to get noticed. While they may be fewer in number, they tend to attract a lot of attention.

    A tad on the political side there. And I disagree with you. There are a lot of people who put him down without taking the time to actually listen to him for a few weeks to fully understand what he's about.
     
  6. Jul 2, 2007 #126 of 346
    purtman

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    Not to be too political, but I know of several people who believe that Rush is 100 percent on target. He comes across (regardless of political affiliation) as taking whatever side he can to a) support his argument and b) put down those who don't agree with him. On one day the drug users need to be sent up the river and the next day everything is okay with him.

    As far as the baseball side of things, having been around the game for many years, I understand the overall picture and the strategy involved with it. I'm not talking about just the current batter, but who is on deck, who is available in the bullpen, etc.
     
  7. Jul 3, 2007 #127 of 346
    James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    Please keep the comments related to SOCCER and stay away from themes that will get this thread closed, more posts deleted or time off from the forums.

    Insulting each other and discussing politics/etc. is not appropriate for DBSTalk.
     
  8. Jul 5, 2007 #128 of 346
    Steve Mehs

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    While it’s been a while since I posted in this thread, I gave it a chance a few times, but man soccer is boring. Some observations, the field is too big, there’s really no big name player or team which makes getting into it and find someone to root for difficult. I mean, you don’t have to be a sports fan, know anything about sports, but provided you didn’t just get beamed down everyone knows who Joe Montana, Michael Jordon, Wayne Gretzky, Willie Mays, Dale Earnhardt and Tiger Woods were/are. I couldn’t name one pro soccer player (past or present, domestic or foreign) to save my life.

    MLS Direct Kick is currently in free preview, there were three games on tonight, flipped between all three, couldn't find anything remotely fascinating in any of the games. I was surprised though to see the number of people at the games. While I don’t care for it, obviously a lot of Americans do.

    I just can’t understand how LA can have not one but two MLS teams, but the second largest market in the country no longer has an NFL team. The NFL (real football) is where it's at, action packed, plenty of strategy and it's America's sport. I was on Wikipedia looking up soccer and Rochester is mentioned as a potential future MLS market. Bring the MLS to the area and I might give it another chance, just like give us back an NBA team, and I might get into basketball rather then watching an occasional game in HD.

    For now it’s the NFL (Go Titans!), NHL (Go Sabres!) and MLB (Go Yankees!).
     
  9. Jul 5, 2007 #129 of 346
    HDTVFanAtic

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    Then you don't understand basic business.

    The NFL doesn't go where Governments will not build them $300 - $400 Million Stadiums and hand it over to them - plus gives them additional tax breaks.

    MLS can play in any old stadium in LA as they don't have the expense or need the seating - as there aren't as many fans.

    And....what else are you going to do in Rochester :rolleyes:
     
  10. Jul 5, 2007 #130 of 346
    Steve Mehs

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    No I understand that, I don't understand why the Rams and Raiders left LA. Obviously they had stadiums. I have no idea the situation and never bothered to look into it. I would have to guess both teams wanted new stadiums and the local government said no. I really only follow the Titans and Bill in-depth.

    A nice Science Museum, the Strong Museum for the kids, boating/sailing/fishing at Lake Ontario or the Finger Lakes, Lamberton Conservatory, the Canal Days Festival in Fairport, the colonial village in Mumford, Sabres and Bills a short drive down the Thruway. There's a lot to do here in Upstate NY, we just don't have the glitz and glamour of NYC, and I prefer to keep it that way. I’m happy were known for snow and chicken wings.
     
  11. Jul 5, 2007 #131 of 346
    Chandu

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    Then you don't understand basic business either. Either that, or you understand business far better than big shot sports business people like the now late Lamar Hunt (may the honorable old man's soul rest in peace), Robert Kraft, Stan Kroenke, Dave Checketts, Dietrich Mateschitz, Jorge Vergara, Lew Wolff, Phil Anschutz, or high profile sports conglomerate like Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment Ltd.

    MLS teams don't go where they can't control destiny of their revenue and are dependent on the renting whims of other stadium owners. And yes, certainly not "any old stadium in LA" either.

    Outside of teams in Washington D.C., Houston, Kansas City and Boston area, every single MLS team either plays in a brand new stadium they own or have favorable rental deal, OR have brand new stadium construction in progress due to open very soon. And in case of Washington D.C., Houston and Kansas City, as well as upcoming San Jose, work is hectically underway for finalizing brand new stadium deals which could be announced as early as within a month. In case of the Boston area team, it's even a moot point as the NFL team owner there himself owns the local MLS team. So he can use his own NFL team stadium as he pleases for his MLS team. Meaning, zero rental liability and controlling destiny of his finances.

    It's very ironic you chose to lecture someone else using a fictitious "any old stadium in LA" without doing basic background research, or having a clue about what stadium you're taking about.
     
  12. Jul 5, 2007 #132 of 346
    Chandu

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    If your exercise for knowing about the sport more is through checking out some MLS matches and declaring that there are no big name players or teams in the sport, then by all means, you're entitled to such an opinion. There seems to be an implicit assumption in such logic that a "USA based league" is for some reason a be-all and end-all for any sport. For a massively global sport such as soccer, I won't bother pointing out the fallacy in such an assumption. Which is not to say that there are absolutely no world class players in MLS or none of the MLS play is ever on par with anything on world stage. But I won't bore you with the details by writing about it more.

    Having traveled in more than dozens of countries for extensive periods of time, I can assure you that there are thousands and thousands of died in the wool sports fans (people who literally eat, breath, drink sport every waking and sleeping moment of their life, crazier than craziest of sports fans you might have known in USA) who won't be able to tell who all of Joe Montana, Wayne Gretzky, Willie Mayes or Dale Earnhardt are, to save their life. There are pockets such as Scandanavian countries or Eastern Europe who of course know all about Gretzky. But to be able to tell who *ALL* of those guys are? Forget about it.

    Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods are completely different stories. Those guys are not sports people. They are brand names, even more on a business plane than sports.

    Of course, I also know of pretty much majority of USA here who won't be able to tell who Leo Messi, Jonah Lomu, Daniel Carter, Ayrton Senna, Michael Schumacher, Wayne Rooney, Sachin Tendulkar, Glenn McGrath, Russell Coutts etc. are.

    It doesn't mean all those dyed in the wool sports fans in USA are any more or less sports fans than the others I mentioned, or vice versa. Just wanted to provide a perspective that biases based on personal experiences do actually fog up perceptions both outside USA and within.

    That's great for you.

    Exactly. You've hit on the head of the nail. As I had posted in a previous link, those 41% more people in USA who watched Gold Cup final as opposed to Stanley Cup final last game must have really cared about the sport.

    The good news from MLS standpoint is, they've very little motivation in going after potential customers like you, because they've figured out it's a waste of resources. Instead, they're focussed on thousands and thousands of soccer fans in this country who have never been MLS fans. And such a strategy of going after a core customer base has been paying them off incredibly well financially.

    Actually, I'm going to take an unusual step of pointing to one of my own posts earlier in this thread which talked about this:

    http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=859962&postcount=49

    That's actually a fallacious statement which seems to assume that the fates of these completely unrelated leagues (which are in totally different stages of their life) are somehow linked. It also seems to completely ignore very vital information about the Los Angeles market, which has on a number of occasions been known to set staggering TV ratings for soccer matches, most notably Club America vs. Chivas de Guadalajara - the El Classico derby from Mexican league.

    That's fantastic for you and pretty much all of USA. As for me personally? Whatever.

    Wikipedia is obviously no authority for such info, but that's exactly what it is. "Potential future". Rochester is in fact a fantastic market for soccer and has been for ages. The fanbase for Rochester Raging Rhinos (of A-League) is very passionate and diehard. However, they have little hope of joining MLS anytime soon, which has absolutely nothing to do with reasons related to the sport itself. They are more financial/business related reasons. The owner of the Rochester team would have to shell out significant chunk of money to join MLS ranks, and he just doesn't have that deep pockets, or is not motivated to throw his money away on it right now. If some other rich business people buy his team outright in the future, this may of course change. Given that how little of a TV market Rochester is, this is extremely unlikely.
     
  13. Jul 5, 2007 #133 of 346
    txtommy

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    NFL = Action packed? Let's see. Between each 2-3 second action packed play, the players stand around talking and resting for 30 seconds. If that isn't enough they call time out so they can talk and rest some more. If they get low on timeouts, a player will fake an injury so that they can talk and rest more from their previous 4 second run; how tired these athletes must be. Meanwhile the fan gets to see several beer commercials and endless replays of the previous 3 second burst of action. In a one hour game which takes 4 hours to play there might be 2 minutes of actual action playing time and two hours of beer and viagra commercials. Even after the superbowl I hear more people talk about the commercials than the actual game play. Most of the plays are done by rote after practicing each move 1000 times and require little thought by the player other than to remember the play number and what their move is on that number. Only a few are able to improvise and achieve success when a play falls apart. Bores me to death.

    Soccer = Ball in continuous play = Action = Excitement.
     
  14. Jul 5, 2007 #134 of 346
    James Long

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    Rugby ... take off the pads and PLAY BALL!

    BTW: This thread is about why Americans dislike soccer. It really doesn't matter if American sports heroes are unknown overseas if the topic is about the preference of Americans.

    Saying that Americans are too ignorant of the sport to know players like Mia Hamm is an honest answer ... "Americans don't like it because they don't know the players."

    When it comes to sports do Americans (or anyone for that matter) focus solely on teams? Yes, teams have their followers regardless of what players they have but the superstar isn't "The Bulls" as much as it is "Michael Jordan and The Bulls". It could be just a matter of education ... get people interested in whomever the leading players are on "The Fire" and grow the audience.

    If there are no leading players and soccer is truly a team sport then it could be just a matter of preference. Americans like individual achievement. We look for heroes as individuals more than groups. (Even when heroes are grouped we seek to make them individuals by listing names.) Changing that in our culture could be difficult.
     
  15. Jul 5, 2007 #135 of 346
    Ira Lacher

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    Americans don't like soccer because:

    1. We don't dominate it; therefore, it's not important;
    2. We're not familiar with its rules; therefore, it's not worth learning about;
    3. Most of us have never played it; therefore, there's no sense watching it;
    4. It's played in parts of the world we simply don't give a carp about (read: outside the U.S.); therefore, see 1, above;
    5. It's too full of complexities and nuances that Americans just don't grok; therefore we don't have the time or patience to appreciate it;
    6. Most players don't have pronounceable-to-American names; therefore we can ridicule them, just as we ridicule anyone who isn't named Smith or Jones or whose name ends in a vowel;
    7. Most players aren't Americans; therefore they're not worth listening to or learning about;
    8. Most players don't speak English; therefore, see No. 7, above;
    9. There's no organized violence as part of the gameplay; therefore the games can't be exciting.
     
  16. Jul 5, 2007 #136 of 346
    Ray_Clum

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    Don't forget about Ted's Dogs too... mmmm.... get 2-3 Ted's footlongs smothered in their special sauce... mmmm.... {wiping drool}
     
  17. Jul 5, 2007 #137 of 346
    packfan909

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    Hi Chandu,

    I would love to get TSN/NHLNet/CBC here in the states. I agree that the countries that are more dedicated to the sport will give better coverage. Versus comes close during playoff season, but nothing beats watching TSN for hockey news. My friend is big into football and would rather watch Setana / FSN World / ETC to get International broadcasts. It is just not a priority to make those widely available. Heck, Beckham made news when it was announced he was playing in the states, but you don't here about how he is playing at all.

    American sports is crazy like this. A hot dog eating competition gets more air play than soccer (football).

    If people have a passion for something, they will pay for it. Its there on PPV or as a Subscription if you really want to watch it.

    pf
     
  18. Jul 5, 2007 #138 of 346
    packfan909

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    Which is why soccer and hockey do not thrive here in the states. Team sports without individual achievement do not go over well.

    "Chicks dig the long ball..." Baseball is a team sport but we go crazy when a home run is hit.

    We know all about the quarterback, running back, wide receivers on our favorite football teams but wouldn't recognize the middle line backer if he were in front of you in line at the supermarket.

    pf
     
  19. Jul 5, 2007 #139 of 346
    Upstream

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    Way to draw meaningless conclusions.

    Maybe it is no more complicated than Americans don't like soccer because we are not familiar with it. No value judgment. No insults. It is what it is.

    Why assume there is something wrong with Americans (or Australians or soccer) because Americans (or Australians) don't like soccer to the same degree as people in some other countries.

    Instead, answer the question: Why should Americans like soccer? I expect a better answer than "Because everyone else does."
     
  20. Jul 5, 2007 #140 of 346
    SledDog

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    I think it's a little more basic then people think...

    I lived in the country of Turkey for a couple of years and had the good fortune to attend quite a few soccer games...

    The sport is different in a live setting, just like any sport.

    But, in the US we see the violence that takes place in the stands. The Soccer Hooligans of England are a great example of this....

    I think the violence of the sport, in the stands, turns people off. The news programs show this violence and point out that it's happening in a third world country. I feel that is a contributing factor to our dis-like of the sport.

    I knew a gentleman in Turkey that was an part owner of the team in Adana. I traveled most of the country following his team. And I can tell you, I have seen the violence in the stands. I have seen people nearly kill each other over a "bad call" on the field.

    When I attended the games I knew I would be safe. I alway sat in the owners section. This section was fenced off and had Turkish Navy troops with Thompson machine guns (with the round style magazines) guarding it.

    That's soccer in a third world country. And that's what, I believe, most americans associate the sport with, third world countries. And, of course, anything that it popular in a third world country could not be worth watching. Unless we created the sport and exported it, like baseball.
     
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