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Why rigid rules at schools don't work

Discussion in 'The OT' started by phrelin, Apr 30, 2013.

  1. phrelin

    phrelin Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    Kansas school apologies to Airman in prom dispute

    Just give those we pay to be in charge some discretion and hire people with good judgement and common sense. I don't get the "no exceptions" approach to rules. I know it makes being a school official far less risky, but they are supposed to be paid to use their best judgement, not be mindlesss robots at the door.
     
  2. Nick

    Nick Retired, part-time PITA DBSTalk Club

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    "Zero tolerance" requires zero thought.

    Why, then do we hire experienced, educated administrators
    to run our schools but not allow them to think for themselves?
    If school boards don't have full confidence in the administrators
    they employ to think for themselves, to use their own judgement,
    then something is very wrong. Perhaps it's the board members.
     
  3. scooper

    scooper Hall Of Fame

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    The problem is - sometime, somewhere - those same experianced administrators will, using their experiance and good judgement, make what some parent perceives to be the "wrong" decision. Said parent will then scream at the school board, and as they say - S*** rolls downhill....

    Don't get me wrong - I'm in favor of letting said administrators do what they are paid for - making decisions that may not be popular.
     
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  4. May 1, 2013 #4 of 54
    djlong

    djlong Hall Of Fame

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    I absolutely agree that "Zero Tolerance = Zero Thought"

    Zero Tolerance is also for cowardly people who can never stand up for their convictions or actions. They need some arbitrary rule to "blame".
     
  5. May 1, 2013 #5 of 54
    betterdan

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    We should have zero tolerance for this zero tolerance stuff .... oh wait :sure:
     
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  6. May 1, 2013 #6 of 54
    TheRatPatrol

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    What they couldn't allow him to go in as a chaperone? Ridiculous.
     
  7. May 1, 2013 #7 of 54
    Getteau

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    Quote:
    "The proposed policy change would prohibit anyone 21 or older from participating in the dance itself, but provide for exemptions so that older family members or others with prior permission could escort students across the red carpet."

    The rule change is only slight less bad. So the family member can escort the student across the red carpet and to the front door, but they can't go into the dance. I guess next year we'll get to see a You-Tube video of a military family member walking up and being turned away at the door. That's so much better than turning them away at the red carpet. Jeeze, here's a thought, how about prohibiting 21 or older unless they are a family member. Although even 21 is pretty arbitrary. I guess they are afraid the 21+ year old will buy alcohol for the student and bring it with them (not that the 21 year old isn't already going to do for their girlfriend/boyfriend).
     
  8. May 1, 2013 #8 of 54
    sigma1914

    sigma1914 Well-Known Member DBSTalk Club

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    What about special ed kids who might need assistance from someone like a family member?
     
  9. May 2, 2013 #9 of 54
    betterdan

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    Please leave me out of this, I have been out of school for almost 30 years now...
     
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  10. fluffybear

    fluffybear Hall Of Fame DBSTalk Club

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    Let me ask, would this have even attracted half the attention it did had the brother not been in a military uniform? What if the brother had just been released from prison?
     
  11. dpeters11

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    If it was a major case of someone that was exonerated, maybe but unlikely. Average released felon, no way.
     
  12. fluffybear

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    Why? The individual paid their price to society and I do believe the law prohibits him from being discriminated against (unless they are barred from being around children or a school) and is just as entitled to walk his sister down the red carpet as that solider. My point is that an Administrator is looking at the full picture and understands that making an exception for the solider means exceptions will have to be made for others as well.
     
  13. dpeters11

    dpeters11 Hall Of Fame

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    I think you misunderstand me (or I misunderstood you). I'm not saying they shouldn't be allowed to do it, but I don't think it would have gotten the amount of press that this did. It may have gotten some local press, but wouldn't have hit national. I thought that was the point you were making, that his being a service member caused the situation to attract more attention.
     
  14. fluffybear

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    That is how it started off but warped (in my mind) to being more about discrimination and defense of the administrator..
     
  15. James Long

    James Long Ready for Uplink! Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    And I agree ... the world reacts positively to a clean cut military person in a sharp dress uniform. A homeless veteran wearing what's left of a camouflage style jacket - not so much. Appearance is everything.
     
  16. Rich

    Rich DBSTalk Club DBSTalk Club

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    But he was in uniform. That's like putting a sign on you that says, "I'm willing to die for my country". Don't you think members of the armed forces should be able to go where they want in uniform? We could. And did.

    Rich
     
  17. Stewart Vernon

    Stewart Vernon Roving Reporter Staff Member Super Moderator DBSTalk Club

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    That's a more open-ended question than you probably meant it... I respect people who sign up (or were drafted in the day) for military service... but I don't believe it gives them a free pass to go wherever they want. I don't think you meant that statement to be as open-ended as it could be interpreted.

    Flip it around... late at night, you hear a noise... you look and see a man walking around your neighborhood dressed in army uniform attire... are you going to assume that he is a "willing to die for his country" military member home on leave just out for a late night walk? Or are you going to consider the possibility that someone might be up to no good? Are you made to feel safe OR nervous in that moment?

    I'm not casting aspersions on law-abiding well-mannered military personnel... I'm casting instead aspersions on others who might wear similar clothing that can be purchased by non-military personnel... and you don't know until you know.

    Meanwhile... on the topic of this subject "why rigid rules at schools don't work"... I suddenly realized it is a faulty premise anyway... because there are LOTs of rigid rules that nobody is saying don't work.

    Raise your hand to talk... wait your turn... stand in line... don't talk in class... these are rigid rules that when enforced, people cheer and say that kids need to learn discipline! So... rigid rules of some kinds do work and are supported by most of not all.
     
  18. fluffybear

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    No, I don't!
     
  19. Rich

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    I did mean we went to any events we wanted to in uniform and were usually let in free.

    Rich
     
  20. BattleScott

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    So, a student sees a tornado coming outside the classroom window... what do they do? Follow their insticts or follow the RULES?

    Student A is having a blood sugar epsiode and mutters "need orange juice..." while waiting in line, does Student B rush to grab an Orange Juice for Student A to drink? or wait in line like the handbook says?

    There is a HUGE chasm between everyday rules as you have listed and the creation of and, more importantly, the mindless enforcement of the "RIGID" rules that result in these absurd stories on daily basis.

    Look at just this obscure forum page and we are currently talking about:
    - a 5th grader being suspended for bringing a pocket knife on a nature camp trip.
    - a quadraplegic employee being terminated over legal use of medical marijuana
    - an active service member being denied access to escort his sister to her prom.

    All three, glaring examples of how the Zero-Tolerance and unbendable policy mindset is turning us into a mass of thoughtless, irresponsilbe morons.
     

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