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Will You Lose the Distant Network Feeds? Here is what DirecTV Says

Discussion in 'Legislative and Regulatory Issues' started by Lord Vader, Dec 23, 2004.

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  1. joblo

    joblo Godfather

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    Dec 10, 2003
    There is nothing in the new law that prohibits the granting of waivers. Quite the contrary, there are actually additional provisions for waivers. If D* is no longer applying for analog waivers, as I have read elsewhere, that's company policy, not something mandated by law.

    However, because DNS is no longer permitted in LIL areas, you can now apply for and must have a waiver from your LIL station in addition to any grade B contour stations, assuming your satellite company goes along.

    For more information see this thread.
     
  2. waltinvt

    waltinvt Godfather

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    Feb 9, 2004
    I gotta tell ya - that cracks me up. I saved it and am going to play it for my kids every time they complain about their chores. :)
     
  3. waltinvt

    waltinvt Godfather

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    Feb 9, 2004
    Now back to business.

    I really think our only hope now is pushing to get the digital "white" area established NOW. Heck, it already exists at: http://www.iwantmyhdtv.com/iwanthdtv/ .

    Maybe if we start making a lot - I mean LOT or noise to our newly sworn-in, full of piss and vinigar, Congress and the FCC, (Maybe even try to get some press on this) we can get them moving. Until it's done, the DBS people aren't going to do anything.
    WaltinVt
     
  4. Lord Vader

    Lord Vader Supreme Member

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    Sep 20, 2004
    Galactic Empire
    As was explained by Dan on the DBS forum, you can receive the DNS feeds if:


    1) You have an RV exemption - NO CHANGE. Nothing in the SHVERA has ANY effect on RV exemptions.

    2) You have distant networks now AND subscribe to your local affiliates from your DBS provider - Depends upon HOW you obtained the distant networks...
    a) You are within the Grade B contour of one or more local network affiliates (which means you were grandfathered under the SHVIA) - You may keep distant networks OR your local affiliates, but not both. Once you receive notice from your DBS provider, you have 60 days to select distant networks, if that is your preference. If you do not respond, distant network service will be discontinued.
    b) You are outside the Grade B contour of one or more local network affiliates (whether according to ILLS prediction, the result of signal measurements, or the granting of a waiver from your local affiliate) - You may keep both distant signals and local affiliates. If you discontinue service, or move, or otherwise change the conditions of your subscription to local and/or distant signals, then you will fall under the provisions of item 4 below.

    Note: The DBS providers are required to provide the names and addresses of distant network subscribers, if they do not, then they may not continue to provide distant signals.

    3) You have distant networks now and your DBS provider does not offer your local affiliates - You may keep your distant networks. If and when locals are offered, if you want them you must give up the distant networks.

    4) You do not currently have distant networks - A couple of possible outcomes, depending on your location:
    a) You live inside the Grade B boundary of local affiliates - You can not get distant networks
    b) You live outside the Grade B boundary of local affiliates and your DBS provider offers your in-market locals - you can not get distant networks.
    c) You live outside the Grade B boundary of local affiliates and your DBS provider does not offer your in-market locals - You may subscribe to distant networks.

    An explanatory statement of the legislation, as passed, can be found here:
    http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/cpque...=TOC_61705&

    Totally independent of these points, IF you live in a market where the local network affiliate is owned and operated (O&O) by the network, then you can get a distant High Definition (ONLY!!) feed of that network. If you local affiliate is not O&O then you are restricted to what they provide, HD or not.

    There are also some cases where a station can be delivered outside of its DMA, but within its home state, if it is the only high power affiliate of its network in the state.

    Bottom line, if you do not currently have distant networks, the only way to get them is to have an RV exemption, or live someplace where your DBS provider does NOT offer locals AND that is outside the Grade B contour for any network affiliate.
     
  5. Marcus S

    Marcus S Icon

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    Apr 23, 2002
    One question I have is if I eventually receive a 60 day notice and choose to keep distant networks, example FOX / NBC, but never added ABC / CBS, live 70 miles away from my closest large city, but sub to them... If I drop my so called locals, can I then add ABC / CBS? I live outside the B contour.
     
  6. waltinvt

    waltinvt Godfather

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    Feb 9, 2004
    I wish someone had answered the above question but also, more specifically:

    I've had distants analogs of NBC & Fox from Dish since Feb '04.
    I've also had CBS-HD from Dish since Feb '04. (I had asked for CBS distant but for some reason they only gave me the CBS-HD).
    I didn't ask for the distant ABC at that time.
    I've also had LILs from Dish.
    I live in Vermont hills and with a good rooftop antenna still can not get locals OTA of any network, digital or analog, except PBS.
    I just received my letter from Dish about deciding which I want to keep.

    This would be simple if I'd had all the distant nets, I'd just cancel my LILs and keep all the distants but instead I have a complicated decision to make.
    I realize I can cancel my LILs and keep the 2 analog distants I have, NBC & Fox but what about the CBS-HD and the 2 distant nets (abc & cbs) I didn't have ?

    Thanks,
    Walt
     
  7. Greg Bimson

    Greg Bimson Hall Of Fame

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    In response to waltinvt having someone answer questions, I'll start with Marcus S:
    Marcus has been upset with this whole endeavor, and it will become more upsetting:

    If someone receives mail from their DBS company stating they must choose to keep their local service or their Distant Network Service (DNS), then those are the only two choices there are. Your local service is defined as the channels available to the subscriber because the satellite company is retransmitting a given market's local stations back into the market. In Marcus' case, it is Denver. The DNS is defined as the channels available to a subscriber due to some qualifications in law that are not local channels. Marcus receives DNS for Fox and NBC.

    If Marcus receives notice in the mail about making a choice, then Marcus either chooses between the Denver locals or his DNS service (his distant Fox and NBC). Marcus does not qualify for DNS service for CBS and ABC. Due to the law, Marcus will never receive them. Marcus is allowed Fox and NBC because he has been subscribing to those prior to enactment of the SHVERA. With the SHVERA, Marcus no longer qualifies for CBS and ABC, since the local channels for his market are available via satellite.

    Walt, you are in the same boat. OTA reception does not matter; because Burlington is available via satellite, you do not qualify for DNS under the new rules. You will not be able to receive distant analog networks from CBS and ABC. You will be able to keep your Fox and NBC DNS, but you will lose your local channels if you do so. I believe the CBS-HD feed is under a different rule, and you get to keep that.
     
  8. AllieVi

    AllieVi Hall Of Fame

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    Apr 10, 2002
    I received the dreaded IMPORTANT NOTICE from DISH. I've had NY and LA channels forever, but now I have a choice of which I want to keep after April 17th. I have to let them know by April 7th. I live in the LA DMA.

    I plan to request an RV exemption, but don't see a reference to it on their web site. I'll call, of course, but since the customer service lines will probably be busy, I'll ask here. Are they still available?
     
  9. waltinvt

    waltinvt Godfather

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    Feb 9, 2004
    Thanks Greg,
    Can you clarify the "different" rule for the CBS-HD a little and why I get to keep it ? I'm antisipating problems when I deal with Dish on this.

    If I understand you correctly, when I cancel my Dish LILs, I can keep my NBC and Fox distant analog feeds plus the CBS-HD feed (all out of NY) all currently provided by Dish.

    Ok, so I do that and later at some point Dish strikes a deal with Fox and / or NBC to get their national HD feed similar to how they have with CBS, will I be entitled to get them until such time as my local HDs become available thru Dish ?

    By the way, thanks fopr taking the time with this.
    WaltinVt
     
  10. joblo

    joblo Godfather

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    Dec 10, 2003
    Well, it looks like Dan’s interpretation was right and mine was wrong. I still find it incredible that the NAB would actually push for this, and that Congress would go along, but hey, maybe some Congressmen like irate letters from constituents, I dunno….

    First thing, anyone forced to choose should always choose distants to start, because this decision can be reversed any time you want. Wait until they turn off locals on April 17, then switch back on April 18 if so inclined. But once you give up distants, they’re gone forever.

    In the meantime, I would send a letter along the following lines to your DBS provider and all your local station managers:
    . . .
    Dear [insert station manager’s name],

    My family and I have been watching and enjoying
    [insert distant signal ID] via DBS since 19[insert year]. Since [insert date], we have also been able to receive and enjoy your station. Unfortunately, as a result or recent changes in the law, [insert DBS company name] is now requiring us to choose between the distant station and your station. A copy of their letter is enclosed.

    We would very much like to continue receiving both channels, but if forced to choose, our family consensus is to continue receiving the channels we have had longer rather than your station. We understand, however, that under 17USC119(a)(4)(F), you may grant us a waiver to receive a distant network signal in addition to your signal. We hereby request a waiver to receive
    [insert distant signal ID(s)].

    We hope you will consider this request favorably, because although we would very much like to continue receiving your station, we will be unable to do so after April 17, unless you grant this waiver.

    Sincerely, etc.

    . . .
    You could also include some language about the unfairness/obnoxiousness/etc. of forcing you to make this choice, as long as you can keep it polite and professional.

    The important point is that this is basically a FREE KICK for you, the DBS DNS subscriber. The NAB has effectively invited you to kick them in the rear, so do it!!

    Even if you turn off locals only from April 17 until the start of May sweeps, I think it would be worth it just to throw a scare into these morons.

    Finally, as I’ve written previously, I still believe the law can be interpreted so as not to force this choice, and if enough people respond as suggested above, the NAB itself will be crying for that alternate interpretation, which would be ironic indeed.

    I know, I know, that will never happen… but it’s fun to dream………
     
  11. joblo

    joblo Godfather

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    Dec 10, 2003
    If you subscribed to DNS in 2004, the choice shouldn't apply to you. I would keep distants for now, and make further inquiries.
     
  12. CJLinst

    CJLinst New Member

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    Dec 19, 2004
    Just got my letter from Dish. I've had NY and LA since 1997. When I was evaluating a switch to DirecTV instead of buying a 921, my wife vetoed the decision based on the NY networks, which we would certainly have not been given as a new D* sub.

    Now, with the NY locals going away and FOX, ABC, and NBC in HD on D*, there's going to be a 921 available on eBay very soon. I do not blame Charlie for Congress' legislation, but I do blame him for the lack of information and downright obfuscation of E*'s High Definition plans.

    All this, added to the stupid PVR fee, and I'm gone.... Maybe in time to catch the tail end of '24' in HD.
     
  13. sflam

    sflam New Member

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    Feb 11, 2005
    does anybody know if I can ask directv to change my place of service address so that I can receive the new york local feeds
     
  14. Greg Bimson

    Greg Bimson Hall Of Fame

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    Your address is in San Diego, according to your profile. If you "move", you no longer can receive distant network service if your address is within a market that is serviced with their local channels.
     
  15. bcushman

    bcushman Mentor/Supporter

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    Try as hard as I can to find an answer, I still am not sure about my position. I presently receive Grade A signals from BOTH the Boston & Providence channels. In October 2004, when I asked for, I received the CBS and NBC channels (NY & LA). Because Boston has an O&O CBS channel I only pay for the LA feed & get the HD feed (NY) free. I pay for both feeds from NBC. I get the Fox HD feed free because of a O&O station in Boston. I AM PRETTY CERTAIN I AM LUCKY TO RECEIVE THESE CHANNELS.

    Fortunately, I am in a position where I receive excellent OTA reception of all HD channels, and have the distants for time shifting and seeing LA & NYC news. If I lose them, I save money but lose the convenience of the additional channels.

    My question is will I at some point have to make a choice on which channels I want to keep or will they just be removIed.
     
  16. Marcus S

    Marcus S Icon

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    Here is what I copied from another forum, hope thats not against the rules. Is this true? Obviously, if interpreted correctly, rurals are in fact screwed by SHVERA. What was Congress thinking? Oh that's right, they where not.

     
  17. fwdlink

    fwdlink Cool Member

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    Nov 8, 2003

    Hmm, thanks for posting this...I'm VERY PERPLEXED because I have subscribed since 99 and HAVE waivers for all of my networks and I have LIL. According to what I have read, I should be able to keep both, is this YES or NO? On the Q&A that was just posted it leaves me to believe this is yes..

    I received my postcard from DTV today stating I must make a choice, I can not have my cake and eat it too. SIGH.. (This is the account I've had since 98 actually and waivers in 99 after the lawsuit)

    I'm still waiting for my E* letter...On E*, I have waivers for all networks again, with LIL, but have only had them for a couple of years. I suspect I'll be forced to make the decision on those.

    In all cases, I'm saying screw my local networks, serves them right and I'm going for the Distants.

    ARe the letters out for E* now? Just curious...

    Tnx :(
     
  18. joblo

    joblo Godfather

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    Dec 10, 2003
    Marcus,

    A lot of stuff in that repost is just plain wrong. I don't have time to dissect it all, but Greg Bimson took it on over in dbsforums, and I added a couple of points there. See the "Shvera" thread, page 13:

    http://www.dbsforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36718&perpage=15&pagenumber=13
     
  19. dfergie

    dfergie Hall Of Fame

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    Feb 27, 2003
    Got my Card in and sent off Saturday, elected to keep distants...doh... (already have locals on E*)....
     
  20. fwdlink

    fwdlink Cool Member

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    Nov 8, 2003
    So has ANYONE received communication from E* on this yet? I have not and am a bit worried they're going to make the decision for me. :(
     
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