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Wiring a new house, need advice on heavy-duty set-up

4K views 37 replies 13 participants last post by  joe diamond 
#1 ·
I am having a new home built and we are a couple weeks away from wiring. I plan on having direcTV with many receivers across multiple locations in the house. I have a moderate amount of experience running cable for directv, so I think I know what I want to run where, but hoping others can chime in and tell me what you think.

Here's what I want to accomplish:

* One major TV viewing area that will house my home theater, plus multiple other smaller screens (I'm a sunday ticket junkie). I'm not sure how many total screens will be in the room, but I'm planning for a maximum of 7 (which includes the large home theater screen). A closet will house all my components and DTV receivers.
* There are apporoximately 15 other areas in the house/garage/deck that I want to wire for possible direcTV. Yeah that sounds like a lot but I am wiring every room, plus workshop, plus screen porch. Probably will never have them all running at once, but you never know.
* I will be using an rooftop antenna for HD locals - they are not carried by DTV in my area (yet)
* Will have one DVR (main home theater viewing area) and want to utilize DTVs whole-house access to the DVR through other receivers
* I already own two 4x8 multiswitches, and I have run them in series before so I know that works. By "in series" I mean I had 4 coax running from dish into the first multiswitch. First multiswitch outputs ran to rooms in the house (4) and fed the other multiswitch (4). I then used the 2nd multiswitch to feed about 5 TVs


My tentative plan:


* Run 5 coax from the dish/antenna location to a central hub in my utility room. 4 for the dish, and 1 for the antenna
* at the hub, utilize a 4x16 multiswitch (I think these exist, never used one?)
* run 5 coax from the hub to the Home Theater closet. One of these will be for antenna. 4 of these will be used to feed a 4x8 multiswitch in the closet. That will give me 8 DTV sources for my home theater room. 7 for the 7 max receivers, and 1 extra for the DVR. Home theater closet will also have at least 2 cat6 runs, maybe more.
* All other non-home theater TV locations will get 2 coax and 2 cat6 runs to be used as needed down the line. extra coax can be for HD locals if desired, or redistribution of video signal. Cat6 will be use for connecting to home network, hard wired phone, or redistribution of audio/video (I think)
* the 4x16 multiswitch in the utility room will have 12 outputs left. use these to supply DTV signals to 12 other locations in the house. This is short of my max, but if necessary down the line I'm guessing I can add another multiswitch to the hub in the utility room.


Here's my concerns and unknowns:


* generally, will this work? I know I've done the two 4x8's to feed about 10 TVs at once, but I dont know if I'm pushing the limit. is there a better way to do this?
* Is 5 coax from the roof enough? I know it was with my prior setup?
* will I be able to utilize the DTV whole-house DVR with all these multiswitches in the "path"?
* Am I right that I should be able to use extra coax/cat6 runs to redistribute audio or video (assuming I would get the correct hardware to so such a thing). By redistribute I gess I am thinking 2 main things: using one receiver to feed 2 TVs in sepearate rooms. and taking music playing on my home theater and sednign it to another room/receiver/speakers elsewhere (this is not a high priority however)


Any input would be highly appreciated.
 
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#2 ·
Fruitbat said:
I am having a new home built and we are a couple weeks away from wiring. I plan on having direcTV with many receivers across multiple locations in the house. I have a moderate amount of experience running cable for directv, so I think I know what I want to run where, but hoping others can chime in and tell me what you think.

Here's what I want to accomplish:

* One major TV viewing area that will house my home theater, plus multiple other smaller screens (I'm a sunday ticket junkie). I'm not sure how many total screens will be in the room, but I'm planning for a maximum of 7 (which includes the large home theater screen). A closet will house all my components and DTV receivers.
* There are apporoximately 15 other areas in the house/garage/deck that I want to wire for possible direcTV. Yeah that sounds like a lot but I am wiring every room, plus workshop, plus screen porch. Probably will never have them all running at once, but you never know.
* I will be using an rooftop antenna for HD locals - they are not carried by DTV in my area (yet)
* Will have one DVR (main home theater viewing area) and want to utilize DTVs whole-house access to the DVR through other receivers
* I already own two 4x8 multiswitches, and I have run them in series before so I know that works. By "in series" I mean I had 4 coax running from dish into the first multiswitch. First multiswitch outputs ran to rooms in the house (4) and fed the other multiswitch (4). I then used the 2nd multiswitch to feed about 5 TVs

My tentative plan:

* Run 5 coax from the dish/antenna location to a central hub in my utility room. 4 for the dish, and 1 for the antenna
* at the hub, utilize a 4x16 multiswitch (I think these exist, never used one?)
* run 5 coax from the hub to the Home Theater closet. One of these will be for antenna. 4 of these will be used to feed a 4x8 multiswitch in the closet. That will give me 8 DTV sources for my home theater room. 7 for the 7 max receivers, and 1 extra for the DVR. Home theater closet will also have at least 2 cat6 runs, maybe more.
* All other non-home theater TV locations will get 2 coax and 2 cat6 runs to be used as needed down the line. extra coax can be for HD locals if desired, or redistribution of video signal. Cat6 will be use for connecting to home network, hard wired phone, or redistribution of audio/video (I think)
* the 4x16 multiswitch in the utility room will have 12 outputs left. use these to supply DTV signals to 12 other locations in the house. This is short of my max, but if necessary down the line I'm guessing I can add another multiswitch to the hub in the utility room.

Here's my concerns and unknowns:

* generally, will this work? I know I've done the two 4x8's to feed about 10 TVs at once, but I dont know if I'm pushing the limit. is there a better way to do this?
* Is 5 coax from the roof enough? I know it was with my prior setup?
* will I be able to utilize the DTV whole-house DVR with all these multiswitches in the "path"?
* Am I right that I should be able to use extra coax/cat6 runs to redistribute audio or video (assuming I would get the correct hardware to so such a thing). By redistribute I gess I am thinking 2 main things: using one receiver to feed 2 TVs in sepearate rooms. and taking music playing on my home theater and sednign it to another room/receiver/speakers elsewhere (this is not a high priority however)

Any input would be highly appreciated.
Everything you plan seems adequate. The feature I would plan, if still possible is a system of wire chases from attic to basement or crawl space to allow you to modify the system as things evolve.

Much more can be accomplished with wireless systems and RF remotes. This trend will continue.

I would also ask your question on the Connected Home site. Home Theater guys live and breath this stuff. Installers tend to take stuff out of the box and follow plans..not make them.

Joe
 
#3 ·
Have you considered using a SWM16? It would give you a little more "future proofing", and you could run any non-SWM receivers off the legacy ports, which a multiswitch can be attached to if you need more than 4.

Whole home will not work "with the multiswitches in the path" unless you are using the cat5 network on your own system, because the DECA adapters require a SWM backbone, not a legacy one. Cat5 will work fine though.

You will be able to mirror receivers to a different room, with the proper hardware, and it should be pretty easy with the setup you have described.

My recommendation on the closet to outside run is 6 lines. You need 4 for the dish, 1 for OTA if desired, and then you may want to get cable internet and phone for #6. As for each drop in the rooms, 2 coax, 2 cat5 (really cat6 is the thing now), and I like to put a cat3 there too for phone. If you can afford it, put an outlet on opposite walls so when the room gets redecorated and the TV put on the other side of the room, you don't have a cable running under the floor. This varies from room to room, but try to think about the different places you might put a TV and how you might run the cable.
 
#4 ·
joe diamond said:
Everything you plan seems adequate. The feature I would plan, if still possible is a system of wire chases from attic to basement or crawl space to allow you to modify the system as things evolve.

Much more can be accomplished with wireless systems and RF remotes. This trend will continue.

I would also ask your question on the Connected Home site. Home Theater guys live and breath this stuff. Installers tend to take stuff out of the box and follow plans..not make them.

Joe
I'm definitely running conduit wherever I can. Some areas are going to be hard to get to and/or will require really long runs, but going to do this as much as possible.

Thanks for the reply! I'll check out Connected Home.
 
#5 ·
matt1124 said:
Have you considered using a SWM16? It would give you a little more "future proofing", and you could run any non-SWM receivers off the legacy ports, which a multiswitch can be attached to if you need more than 4.
Can you tell me a little about SWM? I was just introduced to that term and not too familiar with it. Is it necessary for whole-home dvr over coax? if I utilize my non-swm mutiswitch to feed some receivers, they will not be able to access the whole-home dvr?

matt1124 said:
Whole home will not work "with the multiswitches in the path" unless you are using the cat5 network on your own system, because the DECA adapters require a SWM backbone, not a legacy one. Cat5 will work fine though.
Not sure if I am following this. what does the cat5/6 have to do with my whole-home access to the main DVR?

matt1124 said:
You will be able to mirror receivers to a different room, with the proper hardware, and it should be pretty easy with the setup you have described.
can you help me by describing how this would work? Lets say I want to share a receiver between two rooms without a direct connection. The only path I would have available is a spare coax or cat6 from the receiver, back to the main hub, then to room #2 via a spare coax or cat6.

matt1124 said:
My recommendation on the closet to outside run is 6 lines. You need 4 for the dish, 1 for OTA if desired, and then you may want to get cable internet and phone for #6.
A good idea, but I think I'm covered there. Don't have cable where I am at, but if there ever was cable I can access the central hum in the utility room from an outside wall. Phone is going to be installed and that will be a separate line into the utility room in addition to the 5 coax cables I am running to the roof.

matt1124 said:
As for each drop in the rooms, 2 coax, 2 cat5 (really cat6 is the thing now), and I like to put a cat3 there too for phone. If you can afford it, put an outlet on opposite walls so when the room gets redecorated and the TV put on the other side of the room, you don't have a cable running under the floor. This varies from room to room, but try to think about the different places you might put a TV and how you might run the cable.
Yes not a bad idea. I'll see how much I can milk out of my installer as far as extra cable runs.
 
#6 ·
SWM is basically a special type of multiswitch that lets you have up to 8 tuners on a single run of coax. The most obvious benefit of this is only having to run one coax to your DVRs. Another good thing is that if you didn't have a structured wiring plan like you do, the lines can be split and split again, to put it simple, the install is basically how the cable company would install it, with splitters where needed. One other nice bonus is the automatic gain control, which will help with rainfade.

SWM is needed if you plan on using whole home over coax. Whole home can also be done over cat5/cat6. You will need to decide which one you would rather have, or a combination of both. Many (myself included) will recommend the coax method (DECA), and others have a fetish for twisted pair. :) If you try to use DECA on your 4x8s, you won't get anywhere.If you run some of your receivers on the 4x8 and the rest on a DECA network, you will have a hybrid system where some of it runs on DECA and the receivers on the 4x8 will connect to your router via cat5 and will access whole home through a DECA that bridges the wired network to the DECA network, called a broadband DECA.

With mirroring, you could use a RF modulator to make one of the outputs of your receivers coax, then barrel the two lines together in your main closet, then in the room you want it, hook directly to the TV and tune to channel 3/4. For a higher quality solution, they make HDMI or component extenders that run over cat5. They are under $100 that I have seen, so if you don't mind watching the same show at the same time, this will pay for itself after a while, since you won't need another receiver :D

It is always a good idea to run high quality wire too. Try to use solid copper coax and solid copper cat5/cat6, as apposed to copper clad steel and copper clad aluminum. It also might be a good idea to run a heavier shielded coax, depending on your nearby environment, like a nearby broadcast tower.
 
#7 ·
I agree, you want to go with SWiM technology and DECA for support of whole-home. DirecTV does not support ethernet infrastructure for whole-home (but it can be done DIY).

There is an SWM16 multiswitch which can support up to 16 tuners (2 tuners in a DVR, 1 in a non-DVR receiver), which would seem appropriate for your installation.

When you are talking to your contractor, specify SOLID COPPER CENTER CONDUCTOR on all RG6 that is run. That will bump the price, but that is the current specification for DirecTV.

Forget any 4x multiswitch. You must use either a Zinwell WB68 or a Zinwell WB616 (6x8 or 6x16) multiswitch if you go with a non-SWM installation. No 4x anything will work at all. Also, do not plan on cascading (series connecting) WB68's, as they are non-powered and you can run into some problems if you run one off another. The "WB" series are wide-band to support the new streams from the 99 and 103 satellites. Also you will need a slimline dish for HD (if you have not already planned on one). The slimline dish can be obtained with a conventional or SWM8 LNB assembly. You will want the regular one, and want to use an external SWM16 (if you can get one) or two SWM8 multiswitches run in parallel.

As to backfeeding a receiver to a TV in another location, you can do that easily if it is an SD TV. However, to feed HD to another (remote) TV requires either component video, or hdmi, and you are somewhat limited in how long those runs can be. There are some ethernet adapters for doing this, which *might* serve your needs.

As to how much coax (or cat 5/6) to run, my basic rule of thumb is to figure out everything you could ever need or want, then double it.
 
#8 ·
carl6 said:
As to how much coax (or cat 5/6) to run, my basic rule of thumb is to figure out everything you could ever need or want, then double it.
Sat signal, OTA, RGB + audio for mirroring so ... 14 coax at every drop :D
 
#10 ·
I recommend running 6 lines in from the outside. One of your lines may fail someday, or you may need something else coming in (sat radio, or something not even invented yet).

I would also run 2-3 coax lines and 2 CAT6 lines to each outlet location, minimum.

Definitely use the SWM16 over legacy multiswitches. BUT, plan for things possibly changing in the future: run that cable today while it's (comparitively) easy and cheap.

Last, keep in mind that your HD-DVR can show or play a show locally, plus stream another show to ONE other receiver. Don't expect to get one DVR for the whole house and having 3 or 4 receivers all pulling shows from it; that won't work. The solution is to get more DVRs...
 
#11 ·
BattleZone said:
Last, keep in mind that your HD-DVR can show or play a show locally, plus stream another show to ONE other receiver. Don't expect to get one DVR for the whole house and having 3 or 4 receivers all pulling shows from it; that won't work. The solution is to get more DVRs...
Which would means more tuners needed. Although pricey, I would even suggest a SWM-32 for future growth.
 
#12 ·
Using and RF modulator would be SD.

A SWM32?! Holy cow, man! I suggest to the OP that you how many receivers you might ever have, and if you need a 32 tuner, the SWM32s are much cheaper on ebay. :)
 
#13 ·
How would you recommend planning for outdoor TV viewing? I have a location on my deck, and inside a screen porch, that I could see myself investing in an outdoor TV someday. This could involve stand-alone receivers, or more likely just a TV getting a signal from one of the existing receivers inside the house.

But now is the time for wiring, or at least planning for future pulls. Suggestions on how to go about this? Should I treat these areas just like any other areas of the house and run coax and cat6 from my hub? what are the outdoor implications installing that? I'd also consider putting HDMI runs from indoor receiver locations to the outdoor viewing area (in order to share receivers). outdoor implications of that?

should I just install some sort of outdoor "box" (like you see for cable TV access) on the exterior walls, and just make sure I have access to pull cables to these in the future (like conduit from the attic)?

????
 
#14 ·
I'd run two coax to each location along with three CAT6. CAT6 is a particularly useful medium as it can be used for many things including transmission of HD video.

Given the likely connection of gaming consoles, optical disc players and media extenders, you really can't have enough Ethernet capacity.

I recommend against a legacy switchgear system (unless you already have a pile of legacy SD equipment) as it uses up cable and offers little, if any, flexibility over SWiM.
 
#15 ·
harsh said:
I'd run two coax to each location along with three CAT6. CAT6 is a particularly useful medium as it can be used for many things including transmission of HD video.

Given the likely connection of gaming consoles, optical disc players and media extenders, you really can't have enough Ethernet capacity.

I recommend against a legacy switchgear system (unless you already have a pile of legacy SD equipment) as it uses up cable and offers little, if any, flexibility over SWiM.
Been doing some reading and my understanding is that I would need a special adapter, and two Cat cables in order to distribute HD correct?

How long can those Cat runs be? depending on the rooms involved, and the distance to the hub, I might be looking at 150 feet from room A to room B.
 
#17 ·
For backfeeding a reciever to another room: I myself ran a 50ft HDMI and 3 coax's w/ 1 cat 5 from my theatre to my MBR using a chase. The 3 coax's act as Red Green Blue (RGB) and I trimed the cat5 w/ RCA audio connectors from Home Depot (for audio). Currently I'm just using the component video connections to feed my HD receiver downstairs to my MBR since the hdmi is connected to the tv down there. Not using the 50ft HDMI yet, just ran that "just in case" someday I might use it.


And I would recommend against a swim32 as they are not DECA compatible. cascade 2 swim 16's instead.

And as a rule of thumb, always run more wire than you need. Now is the time to run wire as it will be very difficult once drywall is up. You might even want to think about putting drops where you DONT want them. Who knows how long you will live here, so now is the time to think about potential future residents an where THEY might want a tv. As far as the porch is concerned, cat5/6 can be used for an RCA connection or component, and even hdmi w/ a balun adapter.
 
#18 ·
Manctech said:
Haven't seen it posted but make sure you use RG6 Solid Copper cable. Rated to 2300mhz is sufficient but if you can get 3+ then thats better. (Future proofing)
My vote is for Gepco VSD2001, but its pretty spendy...
 
#19 ·
All right, after doing a lot of internet research and hitting several forums, here is where I am at. I know not all of this is DirecTV related, but I thought I would include it all:

* Master hub in basement utility area. Will be the house distribution center of all the RG6 coax, and cat6 networking cable. No phone cable - Cat6 will cover this.
* At coax Hub will be a SWM16 for my DirecTV receivers (eliminates need for my old multiswitches)
* Entering utility room from outside will be 6 RG6 coax leading to roof location. 4 for DirecTV dish, 1 for OTA antenna, and 1 spare.
* "Standard" media drops of 2 RG6 and 2 Cat6 to nearly every room. Some rooms will get two of these placed on opposite ends of the room for additional flexibility in arranging the room (for example, the office). Media drops include garage/workshop, deck, and screen porch.
* Larger drop running to Home theater media closet. 10 RG6 Coax and 4 Cat6. 10 coax will cover my maximum Sunday Ticket needs with 7 DirecTV receivers for 7 screens. That will eat up 7 of the RG6. 1 RG6 will be for OTA antenna. 2 spares.
* Conduit run from utility room hub to key locations in the basement, and up to the attic. This includes most rooms, and of course the media closet. Attic run should cover anything upstairs as I could drop down through any wall (I think). Conduit also run from Media closet to Home Theater TV wall as means to connect TVs to anything in the closet.
* Will plan ahead to allow a single DirecTV receiver to share signal with multiple TVs at key locations. For example, run connection between master bedroom and master bath to share one signal. Not quite sure how I want to do this.
* Home theater room speakers will be wired to the media closet and to a 7.1 wall plate. Sub will get wired to media closet with RG6. Upstairs living room will have 2 ceiling speakers with speaker wire running to built-in cabinets in the room (the location of that room's media drop). I'm not sure what I want to do with these speakers yet. At a basic level, I'd just have a radio/mp3 shelf unit on the cabinets and have that be the source through the speaker wires. I'm guessing since I have a media drop there, that should cover anything I come up with as far as accessing music remotely from elsewhere in the house?
* All RG6 will be solid copper core quad shield 3GHz. Cat6 specs are unknown. Speaker wire I figure I should just go 12 gauge (I wont be the one running it, so not concerned with ease, just performance).


Outstanding questions and lingering thoughts:

* Unsure at specs I should be insisting on for the cat6 cable
* How to handle the DirecTV receiver sharing. I'm torn between running HDMI vs Component between the locations. DirecTV receivers have both outputs, both active, but only one of each. Running component in-wall I *think* might be more reliable to run, but requires big ugly wall plate with 5 jacks on either end, and may be obsolete down the road due to copyright technology. HDMI is a more elegant solution, but requires either (a) using component for the local TV near the receiver or b) utilizing an HDMI splitter in order to feed both TVs. From what I've read HDMI splitters are mini-landmines as far as reliability. If I knew I could reliably split the HDMI signal (even if it was spendy) I'd go ahead with running HDMI in the walls for signal sharing. Thoughts???
* Sort of related to the prior bullet, two locations I am running media drops to are the deck and screen porch...both obviously exposed to the elements (I am in Minnesota). How is this typically done? With the media drop I'd have 2 RG6 and 2 Cat6. Plus these are locations that I may just share a signal from a inside receiver, so they may have a Component or HDMI run as well. Is there outdoor rated jacks and cables?
* Should I run more than 4 Cat6 to media closet? With the ever-growing list of internet capable devices, who knows how many of these I need. Is there any disadvantage of just planning to put a small cat6 hub in the media closet if I ever need more than 4 jacks?
 
#20 ·
Sounds pretty good to me. You know you can run 7 receivers on one coax right? For example, come out of SWM1 port of your SWM-16 directly to the line that runs to the living room, then put an 8 way splitter there instead of in that closet.
 
#22 ·
matt1124 said:
Sounds pretty good to me. You know you can run 7 receivers on one coax right? For example, come out of SWM1 port of your SWM-16 directly to the line that runs to the living room, then put an 8 way splitter there instead of in that closet.
Actually yes you are right, although that would commit 8 of my SWM16 slots to just that closet, which only feeds one room. That would leave 8 for the rest of the house from the other side of the SWM16.

My current plan sketched in my head has potentially 10 active receivers in the house. Not sure I will get that many, but its possible. 3 of those would permanently reside in the media closet feeding the home theater/sunday ticket room. That leaves 7 receivers scattered about the rest of the house... which means the 8 remaining runs from the other half of the SWM16 can feed the rest of the house.

(on football sundays I just would move whatever extra receivers I need from various house locations to the media closet)

SO yes I think I can cut down the runs to the media closet. perhaps 1 for direcTV, one for OTA antenna, and 2 spares is enough. I'd probably go with 6 just for the heck of it.

Only issue would arise is if I ever exceed 8 active receivers in non-media-closet locations. Then Id have to completely split the SWM to 16 at the hub on "standard" days, and move som ewiring around and split at the media closet on "sunday ticket days"

My hub in the utility room (with the SWM16) as about 50 feet away from the media closet. Will that be a problem with that long of run prior to the splitter?
 
#23 ·
Fruitbat said:
How would you recommend planning for outdoor TV viewing? I have a location on my deck, and inside a screen porch, that I could see myself investing in an outdoor TV someday. This could involve stand-alone receivers, or more likely just a TV getting a signal from one of the existing receivers inside the house.

But now is the time for wiring, or at least planning for future pulls. Suggestions on how to go about this? Should I treat these areas just like any other areas of the house and run coax and cat6 from my hub? what are the outdoor implications installing that? I'd also consider putting HDMI runs from indoor receiver locations to the outdoor viewing area (in order to share receivers). outdoor implications of that?

should I just install some sort of outdoor "box" (like you see for cable TV access) on the exterior walls, and just make sure I have access to pull cables to these in the future (like conduit from the attic)?

????
I'm not sure this will fit your plan but....know that sometimes it is easier to put up a second (or third) dish rather than engineering all the long cable runs and power inserters. You can paint the dishes. There are fiberglass rock covers what allow you to hide them in the landscape.

Just a thought.

Joe
 
#24 ·
joe diamond said:
I'm not sure this will fit your plan but....know that sometimes it is easier to put up a second (or third) dish rather than engineering all the long cable runs and power inserters. You can paint the dishes. There are fiberglass rock covers what allow you to hide them in the landscape.

Just a thought.

Joe
I suppose I could do that, but I don't see how that really helps solve any of my remaining concerns. Even if I did that, unless the extra dishes ran through the same SWM16, wouldn't that hose up my WHDVR?
 
#25 ·
Fruitbat said:
Actually yes you are right, although that would commit 8 of my SWM16 slots to just that closet, which only feeds one room.
They're only "committed" if they're plugged in. If you unplug the receivers, the won't consume channels. It would take some judicious powering off and on to make it work.
 
#26 ·
Fruitbat said:
Even if I did that, unless the extra dishes ran through the same SWM16, wouldn't that hose up my WHDVR?
Only one Slimline to a SWiM switch.

I can't imagine that all the closet receivers are going to need WHDS.

You may find that switched Ethernet works better for large-scale configurations as you aren't hampered by node count and bandwidth limitations.
 
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