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Wits-end SL3 SWM with HR24 install Lots-o-pics

Discussion in 'DIRECTV Installation/MDU Discussion' started by geneda, Oct 8, 2011.

  1. Oct 8, 2011 #1 of 53
    geneda

    geneda Cool Member

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    Oct 8, 2011
    Howdy folks!

    I am a little experienced in installing satellite systems, that is, I have install 2 or 3 of my own in the past. Including a 1m motorized dish I used years ago for FTA.
    The latest DirecTv installation has me baffled.

    I acquired a fairly new slimline dish and a piratically new HR24, so i wanted to attempt to set this up myself, because I enjoy it and I wanted it setup "my way." LOL. Well, here's what we got, like I said newish dish, newish hr24, I bought a new PI and a new RG6 cable with pressured ends.

    I installed the satellite on the roof, ensuring the mast in NICE and PLUM. The bubble thingy assisted in this (nice addition!). Dishpointer.com tells me (08034 - cherry hill NJ):

    Elevation: 36.6
    Az (true): 217.2
    Az (Mag N): 229.5
    Skew: 62.4

    The HR24 tells me the same thing, but in whole numbers: elev: 37, Az 230 and skew 62.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    So, I run the new cable, to the PI (next to the receiver), plug in the PI and run 1 2ft rg6 cable from the PI to the HR24 (yes, yes, I used the right output on the PI). Turn the receiver run through setup (SWN detected!) , I get all zero on 101 via the signal meter, I expected this, I really haven't set the AZ.

    The wife and I both have iPhones, so I use facetime to get a live video of the signal meter on the TV (isn't technology grand?!) and I take my iPhone on the roof to adjust the AZ.

    [​IMG]

    I'm up there for a while, I can't get a blip on from the signal meter. I check everything again and again. I kill a lot of time up there. Well, I guess it's the LNB or the PI? I have a multiswitch LNB, so I remove the PI, swap out the LNB and run the cable right into the receiver (I only have one, so no spilitter needed). Rerun the setup on the receiver. Back on the roof, still NOTHING.

    Again I spend a lot of time maneuvering the dish. Also, keep in mind, this is over the course of 6-8 days.

    So, now I ask myself, maybe the line of sight is bad? I know the easy answer will be to move the dish, but I really don't want to do that. Here is what I am looking at:

    Is the roof getting in the way? It's kind of a bad angle, I really don't think its in the way.
    [​IMG]



    Just to the right of the telephone pole is 230 degrees (mag N)

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Obviously, I would want the SWM setup. Could anyone offer and suggestion / advice... ANYTHING? LOL It has been fun, but now it bordering on aggravating.

    Thanks for reading!
     
  2. Oct 8, 2011 #2 of 53
    wallfishman

    wallfishman Icon

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    from those pics your Line of sight should be fine. The skew you can lock down 63 wont change. the elevation is what you need to adjust. maybe start with it at 35 then move slowly all around then 36 , etc. It doesnt always work out to exactly 37. sometimes your mast may be off a little and it ends up 39, or 35 .. Did you try that ???
     
  3. Oct 8, 2011 #3 of 53
    geneda

    geneda Cool Member

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    Oct 8, 2011
    Thanks for the reply. Glad to hear about the line of sight.

    For the most part, I did try that. Which brings up another question, what part of the red line on the elevation do I use? Basically, what do I need to line up to get the appropriate degree?
     
  4. Oct 8, 2011 #4 of 53
    Davenlr

    Davenlr Geek til I die

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    Agreed. Make sure in system info, the correct dish is selected to match your LNB, and you are on satellite 101, on the single transponder menu. Set your elevation 2 degrees lower than it says, and sweep the dish left to right from 10E to 10W from where you think the AZ should be, about 1 degree at a time, pause, 1 more. After not getting anything, raise elevation 1 degree, and repeat. You should find it. BTW, if you have an inclinometer, use that to check your mast. Those bubble levels are not accurate.

    For the AZ, the direction the LNB arm is pointing is the AZ. Not sure with dish you have, but I dont think its marked as such, since it would be different on every pole/mast.
     
  5. Oct 8, 2011 #5 of 53
    geneda

    geneda Cool Member

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    Oct 8, 2011
    Good info, thanks! What is the single transponder menu? I have been on the signal meter page with it set to 101, transponder 1 is this what you mean?

    Additionally, I, for some reason, though that bubble thing was accurate i bet that is probably my problem. Gotta read up on how to ensure that is plum. I do not have the device you mention.

    also, what part of the red line do i line up to get the appropriate elevation degree?
     
  6. Oct 8, 2011 #6 of 53
    Davenlr

    Davenlr Geek til I die

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    This might help...These are the times (in UTC) when the sun will be exactly in the same location as the 101 satellite at your location: First col is where sun starts passing behind the satellite, second is when the sun completes passing behind the satellite, and third is the duration in minutes the sun will be behind the satellite.

    10/08/2011 | 18:38:57 | 18:51:02 | 12:05
    10/09/2011 | 18:38:41 | 18:50:46 | 12:05
    10/10/2011 | 18:38:46 | 18:50:11 | 11:25
    10/11/2011 | 18:39:21 | 18:49:06 | 09:45
    10/12/2011 | 18:40:45 | 18:47:10 | 06:25


    Right now, your red line looks to be at 37 degrees according to the picture.

    Yes, the page that shows 1 transponder, not the entire satellite is what I meant. You are good.
     
  7. Oct 9, 2011 #7 of 53
    Dishcomm

    Dishcomm AllStar

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    I disagree. With heavier antennas with longer arms, I always set the EL a degree or two higher to allow for the weight of the dish. I do this because even if all nuts are tight, the dish rocks forward or down a bit. So my advice is to set it one degree high then sweep west to east. The reason for sweeping west to east is you may hit the 103 which is just slightly to the west. Your meter will jump then go down. That's the 103. When it jumps again, you should be on the 101.
     
  8. Oct 9, 2011 #8 of 53
    Davenlr

    Davenlr Geek til I die

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    He is using the receiver meter, not a meter at the dish.
     
  9. Oct 9, 2011 #9 of 53
    geneda

    geneda Cool Member

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    Oct 8, 2011
    Wow, I spent another hour or three on this today. Tough to do with a wife and two small kids (3 and 1.5)!

    I got frustrated again and swapped lnbs. I went from a swm to a 4port multi switch. I removed the pi and went from the dish to a 4 way splitter. 8 know i dont need the splitter because i only have 1 receiver. Any way, i reset the receiver and change the sat setting. Back on the roof, and with in 5 mins I have a 97 on 101!!! Some questions:

    I would obviously like to use the swm LNb, if I do try this again, should the elevation and az be all set or would I still have to adjust them?

    If i keep the current config, do i need to run another rg6 cable from the LNb to tuner 2. Or can I run another rg6 from the splitter to tuner 2?

    Also, with the current setup I need b band convers, another reason I'd like swm.

    Thanks for all the help.
     
  10. carl6

    carl6 Moderator Staff Member DBSTalk Club

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    With the non-SWM LNB, you must run two coax from the LNB to the DVR for two tuner operations. You can't split regular dish signals with a splitter.

    Do the dithering procedure on 101 to make sure you are dead on center on the signal. Then lock your dish down and carefully swap LNB's.

    Getting your receiver to go back and forth between SWM and conventional can be tough. Do a complete power down, then power up with the new LNB and go through the setup to make the necessary change.
     
  11. Davenlr

    Davenlr Geek til I die

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    Yea, like carl said, just lock the dish in with what you have working there. After you have 101 dithered in good, just carefully remove the LNB making sure not to bump the dish, and connect up the SWM lnb, and slide it back in there. Plug the PI back in, and run one cable to the DVR. Reset it, and choose SWM, and you should be good to go. If you dont get any signal after doing that, then you will know either the PI is bad, or the SWM LNB is bad.
     
  12. geneda

    geneda Cool Member

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    Oct 8, 2011
    This is awesome. Thank God for this place. Good stuff. I searched a little, but no real luck - any links to dithering procedure on 101?

    Thanks again!
     
  13. HoTat2

    HoTat2 Hall Of Fame

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    Los...
    You can't actually do the dithering procedure without a separate installation alignment meter, not the signal strength meters built in to the receiver.

    In your situation to the best you can do is to peak the dish readings as best you can on the 101 signal strength screen using the azimuth and elevation fine tuning adjustments.
     
  14. houskamp

    houskamp Active Member

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    actualy better to use 103.. it's more sensitive to movements..
     
  15. Davenlr

    Davenlr Geek til I die

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    I agree here. If you are using the receiver signal meters, using 99c or 103ca or cb results in much better results. You can dither using 101, if you have a partner with a cell phone at the receiver, go from like 30 to 30, and back to center...but since 99 went live, I havent used the dither method at all. Its my lowest strength satellite, so I just pick the lowest strength transponder on the main screen, and tune up on that.
     
  16. geneda

    geneda Cool Member

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    Oct 8, 2011
    Currently:

    101
    1-8 98 95 96 97 95 100 95 95
    9-16. 96 95 96 98 95 97 96 95
    17-24 94 100 94 95 95 95 96 100
    25-32 96 96 96 0 99 96 97 98

    99(c). 1-16 all zeros

    99(s) 1-6, 15-24 all zeros

    103(s) 1-6, 15-24 all zeros

    103(ca)
    9-16 95 90 92 93 91 88 89 95
    17-24 92 92 92 94 92 91 93 94

    103(cb). All zeros

    I don't have a b-band converter, that's why I want to try my swm LNb
    How do these numbers look?

    Thanks
     
  17. Davenlr

    Davenlr Geek til I die

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    Those are excellent. Swap in your SWM LNB and you should be golden.
     
  18. geneda

    geneda Cool Member

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    Oct 8, 2011
    Great thanks. I thought I read somewhere that changing an LNb would require a recalibration.

    I'm gonna give it a shot. If it doesn't work, any advice on determining the culprit, PI or LNB?
     
  19. carl6

    carl6 Moderator Staff Member DBSTalk Club

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    Yes, good numbers. I agree, if you swap and put in the SWiM LNB and don't have anything, then you've got an LNB or power inserter problem. Worst case is you go back to the conventional LNB until you can get that resolved.
     
  20. Davenlr

    Davenlr Geek til I die

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    Well, if you have a volt meter, you can plug a pig tail coax into the power inserter LNB jack, and measure the voltage between the center conductor and shield. It should match the voltage of the PI (believe its 21V) plus or minus a few volts. If you get that, then its either the LNB, or the receiver is not switching to the SWM, which you can verify on the receiver when you boot it up. Usually it going from SWM to conventional that can be troublesome. Ive never had any receiver problems going from conventional to SWM.

    If you dont move the dish while swapping, you probably will not need to recalibrate. SWM will usually provide higher numbers anyway, due to its gain circuits.
     

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