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Your opinions: How should DIRECTV compete against Dish's Hopper?

Discussion in 'DIRECTV HD DVR/Receiver Discussion' started by Stuart Sweet, Mar 29, 2012.

  1. P Smith

    P Smith Mr. FixAnything

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    Any reason for that strong opinion ? Any facts ?
     
  2. lparsons21

    lparsons21 Hall Of Fame

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    It took me a moment to answer as I was waiting for my HR24 to respond to my remote! :)
     
  3. Alan Gordon

    Alan Gordon Chancellor

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    WOW...

    Aside from a couple of times when I think my HR24 was doing some background actions, mine have been quite responsive.

    ~Alan
     
  4. lparsons21

    lparsons21 Hall Of Fame

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    Which hasn't been my experience, here's how I see it at my house.

    1. Got 3 new HR24-500s with SDGUI. Nice and fast, good remote response. Not quite as fast as the Vip722k I traded out, but nearly so. I even said so in a number of posts at the time.

    Enter the HDGUI:

    1. At first it was sluggish as hell, 59E fixed most of that, although there are still too many instances of 'please wait' or some such. Not bad though.

    2. But with 59E, now it is hit or miss with the remote. Enough to notice it and quite a few times in a normal evenings viewing time.
     
  5. Alan Gordon

    Alan Gordon Chancellor

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    I don't want to continue being off-topic, so I'll just say that's disappointing.

    It's not as fast as it once was, but I don't have a single complaint about the speed I've experienced.

    ~Alan
     
  6. irlspotter

    irlspotter New Member

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    A password protected Set-up screen – In order to make any changes to any of the settings, I would have to enter a master password

    A Client Permission Screen, instead of just share and delete with all other receivers. I might want to limit who can do what.
    Share with clients: Yes (then menu below is shown) or No, then it acts stand alone.
    [TABLE]CLIENT View Record Delete
    Bedroom H25 X X
    Basement H25 X
    Office HR21 [/TABLE]

    In the above scenario, The Bedroom client can view and record content, but not delete recordings. The Basement can record content to this server, but the Office has no access at all to anything on this server.

    The ability to Delete-From-Start-To-Here in a recording, or Delete-From-Here-To-End in a recording. I record a show, usually a sports program. It starts late and I pad it to record an extra hour. For example, it is scheduled to record at 1:00 PM until 3:00 PM, and I say start at 1:00 PM, but end recording 1 hour later at 4:00 PM. When I watch the program, it didn’t actually start until 1:40 PM, so I have 40 minutes of recording at the beginning that I don’t need to save, and it actually ends at 3:25 PM, so I have 35 minutes of stuff I do not need at the end of the recording. That is 75 minutes of wasted space. Or say, I only want to save 10 minutes in the middle of a sports event. Why can’t I just pause at a spot and use one of the two options, Delete-From-Start-To-Here or Delete-From-Here-To-End.

    Fix the channels I get, so it actually displays the channels I subscribe to.

    Have the quick tune option correspond to a favorites list.

    Deny access to You Tube or Pandora, by receiver.

    Have the recent searches correspond to a favorites list. Your searches do not intermix with my searches.

    Dan
     
  7. Alan Gordon

    Alan Gordon Chancellor

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    I have been mentioning this idea (or variations thereof) since WHDVR began, and stated it's importance even more after the First Look for the HR34 was released.

    ~Alan
     
  8. unixguru

    unixguru Godfather

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    Agree it's not a soft reset. Why should a consumer care?

    It's sad that the M$'s of the world have conditioned people to accept the kind of garbage software that is susceptible to these issues.

    I've been a (mostly Unix) software engineer for 30 years developing enterprise-grade systems so I do know what I'm talking about. Reliability is reliability. Power fail or button reset it matters not.

    XFS is one of the bullet-proof class.

    Having said all that, why get off the couch to push a button if you don't have to? :D
     
  9. TomCat

    TomCat Broadcast Engineer

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    Just over 500 GB (and only when there are 2 Sundays in the mix). But it saves it to a 1 TB partition you otherwise have no access to anyway, which means you will have just as much space available with PTAT turned off as you would with PTAT turned on. If you watch any PT at all, even one show, you have more space with PTAT on than you do with PTAT off, because with it off you have to save to the 1 TB user partition. How much space PTAT takes is therefore a complete non-issue.
     
  10. TomCat

    TomCat Broadcast Engineer

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    I was with you all the way to the last line, which could not have missed the mark more completely. No one buys ad time to be informative. As a veteran of broadcasting, which invented airtime ad sales, I can attest firmly that there is no room for altruism in this business model, nor does it coexist there.

    Whether is is an ad for a particular product or an image ad or anything in between, every ad sold has one goal and one goal only: to get the viewer to eventually, one way or another, cough up more money than it cost them to deliver the ad to you, and this includes even the local furniture store owner that uses it as a vehicle to get his girlfriend on TV. Its an investment, but one that they most definitely are betting will pay off.

    And I vigorously disagree that this is "what you want an ad to do", BTW.

    Can you imagine what an ad like this would do to iPad sales? Instead of 30 million units in Q1 it would be more like 20 million units, and some serious rethinking of every other potential buy of an Apple product. I'd much rather have a Richard Dreyfuss or Peter Coyote voice-over bring me to tears regarding an autistic kid reaching out via the iPad than something as cartoonish as the direction that DISH seems to be going. Yecchhh!
     
  11. lparsons21

    lparsons21 Hall Of Fame

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    I did a fair bit of advertising myself, so I'm well aware of what ads are supposed to do. And yes, the hope is the ad will make you want to buy. But few ads really do that.

    What they do is pique your interest enough to either ask questions, do a bit of research or call the company placing the ad. The E* Hopper ads are doing a fine job of that.

    It isn't altruism, nor is it much in the way of actual information, but it is the impetus to hopefully get you to buy after you've done a little checking around.
     
  12. TomCat

    TomCat Broadcast Engineer

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    You have common sense and meaningful experience and training on your side, but you are going up against urban legend and superstition with no facts backing them up. Who should win? Obvious. You have the "10,000 hours" that makes you an expert 6 times over. Who will prevail? Human nature says superstition. There's no talking to someone who has his mind made up, even if it is made of mush.

    So what really happens when you pull the plug? All R/W ceases. That's it.

    What happens when you RBR? The OS force quits any hung routines, and then, you guessed it, all R/W ceases.

    What happens when you menu reset? A command to cease all tasks (but allowing them, to finish to a break-off point) is sent. The tasks finish, and what happens next? All R/W ceases. (yawn)

    So what is the DVR doing that is so all-fired important when it gets rudely interrupted? Well, recording, which we intend to interrupt anyway, and background indexing, which can be safely interrupted and begins again after reboot. So, nothing in particular, really.

    The difference between RBR and menu reset is that RBR is a force quit and the menu reset is a request to quit. Not much different. It should not cause the loss of a recording because a recording happens in chunks, and the DB is already written to regarding the program (which you are interrupting anyway).

    There is a slight risk with yanking the power, in that if in the write mode (which it is about 20-40% of the time, depending) bits can spray into sectors not originally targeted, which can corrupt the odd recording (or torpedo the OS, or the DB of recordings). That is serious, but the risk is pretty small.

    But I agree, journaling (which is basically writing yourself a list of instructions so you know where to pick up if you get rudely interrupted) makes menu reset and RBR pretty much identical as far as risk. After all, what designer in their right mind would put an inviting red button on the front of their DVR that had any potential at all to cause problems? Not a one. It does not cause problems, it solves problems.

    Be lazy, try the menu reset. If it hangs, RBR. If it still hangs, yank the power (you have larger issues anyway and not many other choices at that point).

    Maybe the RBR is there because they knew that the DVRs would be so sluggish that no one would have the patience to wait for the menu to appear. But then fixing that by adding a manual reset button is like putting electrical tape over your "Check Engine" light.
     
  13. Red Orc

    Red Orc Legend

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    I disagree. Those Hopper commercials are extremely irritating. The last thing those commercials do is make me want to subscribe to DISH or find out what the heck a hopper is. The only thing those commercials make me want to do is change the channel or maybe hit the skip button on the remote. The only reason I even know what a hopper is is because of this thread.
     
  14. unixguru

    unixguru Godfather

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    That would mean that D* is an extremely unusual implementation.

    Since I didn't design the D* I can't say for 100% certainty but in any device I've been exposed to (many) that has a reset button (not many) that button is a hardware master reset which means an electrical signal pulls a reset on the CPU (like an interrupt) which immediately sends it to the same low-level firmware routine that boots after power-up. (A lot of implementations actually have hardware that holds that signal until the power supply has stabilized to prevent a boot attempt too soon after power is applied.) Software (O/S) gets absolutely NO chance to do ANYTHING.

    When you think about it, it has to be that way. If you're resetting because the O/S is hosed you sure don't want the O/S to do anything - which probably wouldn't work anyway (and remain hung).

    See watchdog timer for more related gritty hardware/OS business.

    In fact, that button may be even more severe than a power fail. Power supplies have elements that hold some small bit of reserve power and can notify the software of a "power fail" event and then provide just a tiny bit of additional power to keep things running long enough for the software to do a minimal amount of cleanup. (If the given platform supports such a thing.)

    Extremely unlikely with modern drives. They also know the power is failing. I believe all drives designed for mobile use (notebooks, etc) make a point of pulling the heads entirely off the platters to prevent head/platter damage from shock. Done as the power is fading. Ceasing writes is easy in comparison and can be done long before the head can stray.

    Agree. Menu then RBR then power is best practice.

    :) Yep - how many things have reset buttons these days!

    By now D* software should be good enough to remove the button from future hardware. Although I really do like the improvements with the new HDUI I remain of the opinion that the core software is still not as robust as it should be.

    You're 1000% on target about human nature.
     
  15. Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    However irritating, it seems to be quite successful; we are all talking about it.

    Also, Mr. Parsons indicates it is getting results- any cites of sites?
     
  16. lparsons21

    lparsons21 Hall Of Fame

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    I don't have any except the usual suspects, you know here and the 'other site'. But the discussions are showing up in various and sundry other places too on occasion.

    Heck, even my golfing buddies, a slew of old farts that play most days, have brought up the subject. And while walking the course is about 2.5-3 hours which leads to lots of discussions on various subjects, generally the subject of a Sat TV provider doesn't come up very often. Usually just a discussion of various shows we have watched.

    The ads are effective, possibly even more effective than the D* ads that only mention D* at the very end with lots of non-info leading up to it.
     
  17. Laxguy

    Laxguy Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense.

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    Winters,...
    Thanks. Love the DIRECTV® ads, until about the fourth showing. The Hoppah ads were fabulous the first two times through, now FF. But I lived in Boston area a couple of years, and I love regional accents.

    Discuss amongst yourselves: Don is/is not pronounced the same as Dawn.....
     
  18. bobvick1983

    bobvick1983 Godfather

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    All DirecTV HD is MPEG4 as well. They shut off all of the leagcy MPEG2 some time back.
     
  19. patmurphey

    patmurphey Godfather

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    Posts here seem to ignore the real capabilities of the Hopper/Joey SYSTEM. I have 2 Hoppers and 2 Joeys with 3 HDTVs (the extra Joey gives me whole home intregation until Hopper integration software is implemented. Joeys can see and program both Hoppers and see their respective external drives. I have 6 tuners, one is on PTAT. I can record 6 programs at once, or 9 at once during prime time. PTAT recordings are erased after 8 days, BUT if you set timers for PTAT programs, recordings are kept beyond the 8 days without using the other tuners, or you can just "save" the ones you didn't set timers for.

    Capacity - 500g each Hopper for user recordings. 500g each Hopper dedicated for PTAT, the rest of the 2t drives are reserved for VOD and Dish use. In addition each Hopper can be connected to 2 2t EHDs. User recordings can be transferred to those drives and played as easily as if they were on another internal drive, or the drives can be disconnected and saved as an archive. So, let's see I have a total of 5t of user recording space active to read.

    No DVR allocates all space to user recordings. Dish's 2t drive give 500g to users and 500t to PTAT. The 500g user space hold 250 hours of HD. Doesn't DirectTV promise 200 hours of HD on the 1t HR34 drive?

    I'm surprised how fast and trouble free it's been.
     
  20. inkahauts

    inkahauts Well-Known Member

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    After getting through your needlessly rude portion of your post, I have decided that you are basically saying a force quit and a request quit are the same thing. That sounds about the same as saying using your foot brake in a car is the same as pulling on the emergency brake. They will both work, but they are not exactly the same. and how do you know hitting the red button isn't more like pulling the power cord? Never mind, you obviously don't know... There's no talking to someone if they have their mind made up, even if it's made of mush...
     

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